“I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: ‘He who shared my bread has turned against me.’
“I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am. Very truly I tell you, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me.”
After he had said this, Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified, “Very truly I tell you, one of you is going to betray me.”
His disciples stared at one another, at a loss to know which of them he meant. One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, “Ask him which one he means.”
Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, “Lord, who is it?”
Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. (NIV)
This is a song which
I use to describe what I feel
About people like you
No sense for humanity, no idea about life
This premise has been provedYou used my trust to satisfy your brainless lust
Your word isn’t worth
More than puke in the dust
Betrayer!
Betrayer!Misleader!
You twisted things to satisfy
Deceiver!
This greedy lust you can’t deny, you can’t deny
Betrayer!
Betrayer!How could I be so naive
To believe all the lies
You so easily told
I think I’ve learned my lesson too late
The story took time to unfold
Now I see your true face
Behind your mask, a cheat, a fake
Your word isn’t worth more than puke in the dust
Betrayer!
Betrayer!Ignorant twisted mind,
Maybe it would help
To think before you speak from time to time
Pretend to be a friend of mine
But you would sell your mother if you could
For less than a dime
Intelligence lost,
Brain deceased,
So you will lose,
Fall to your knees,
Guys like you I cannot stand
Maybe I must speak another language
Before you understandMisleader!
You twisted things to satisfy
Deceiver!
This greedy lust you can’t deny, you can’t deny
Betrayer!
Betrayer!
That was a miserable mean thing that jesus did to Judas… since he was clearly working under a regime of extreme determinism…
That said, the credibility of such an intricate conversation must be in doubt considering the flimsiness of the evidence for it… ( writings by a non-eyewitness written decades later…)
Brandon
Brandon, do you mean to say that Jesus was “clearly working under a regime of extreme determinism,” or that Judas was, or that both were?
Do you believe that people have free will?
Branden…There was nothing more ‘determining’ for Judas than the Love of money!
He betrayed Christ for 30 pieces of Silver!
Judas was a scumbag!
What he did to Jesus was the equivilent of the low life whom betrayed the Franks to the Nazis!
Judas Betrayed Christ to the Evil powers!
…Yet You can carry on thinking Christ is miserable…. It exposes you’re Satanic Malice…
jesus was predicting Judas’ action. If that isn’t determinism I don’t know what is.
Actually yes I do believe in free will so doubt that such an exchange ever took place. or perhaps satan is saying that but making me think that I am… If that were the case, is that really a helpful way of viewing things
Tim: Is it wise to judge lest thee be judged? Everybody has good and bad in them to varying degrees. Should you be ranking people in this way? (“scumbag” etc)
You can’t think of an alternative, so you conclude that there isn’t one. That line of reasoning is called argument from ignorance. It’s a well known fallacy. You may know the same fallacy, in another context, as “God-of-the-gaps”.
I can think of an alternative, one which I believe to be true. We live in a block universe. Given that future events have (as it were) “already happened,” and that Jesus has knowledge of those events (you have implicitly granted this premise), how those events happened—whether deterministically or non-deterministically—is irrelevant to his ability to predict the future.
Your belief in free will is an article of faith. There is no evidence for the existence of free will. The very idea of free will is unintelligible.