New Zealanders Providing shelter from the Storm.
This is Essential to the the very *Soul* of our nation.
Let us never be governed by Fear… or Selfish indifference.
Let Bravery and Humanity prevail.
Only this way can we truly hold our heads up.
Any ‘Issues’ that arise from our Goodness… those we must also rise above.
Among other things We must expect some of these people to suffer PTSD because of the horrors they have faced.
Five years of grief, and continues to expand the woundFive years of sorrow and the wound was still bleeding#save #humanity
Providing these families safe haven is undoubtedly the right thing to do.
I personally am willing to put finances and assistance to this cause, and I hope My friends that you are willing too.
I will make investigations as to how we as individuals can make voluntary contributions, and help our new Countrymen and their families.
Let us rally and work to make this a success for us all.
Gavin Seim for Liberty
” Mainstream Media is lying like crazy. But the facts show clearly LaVoy was murdered. He was shot while his hands were still in the air.
Let’s make sure the world knows it. — Gav ”
Published on 28 Jan 2016
This is the complete video footage of a joint FBI and Oregon State Police traffic stop and OSP officer-involved shooting of Robert “LaVoy” Finicum on the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. This footage, which has only been edited to blur out aircraft information, was taken by the FBI on 01/26/2016 and released by the FBI on 01/28/2016. Note regarding date/time stamp in the left corner of video: Pilots use Zulu
“Friends, don’t take the bait. The bait is this video with no sound. Closer video and/or sound would reveal he was hit with their bullets several times before he dropped his hands.
Also, observation from Jeremiah Dearinger:
Also, I found the spot in the video where they shot at them and caused them to speed away. It’s at 8:11. You will see the drone footage brighten momentarily (split second) and you see smoke. It’s a gun shot. And you immediately see the brake light on the truck go off and they start driving.”
My thoughts….Obviously after complying to the flashing lights on the police vehicals, and pulling over… Lavoy hits the gas pedal *when the Police open fire on them! … that is the best explanation.
I think this was all planned… and filmed to make it look like they were resisting arrest.
Then Driving in fear for their lives they met the second road block… which was set up expressly for the purpose of an execution…. they already had gunmen in the trees.
Having stopped the vehicle Lavoy jumped out of the truck with raised hands attempting to surrender.
It is ridiculous to think he was foolish enough to try and shoot his way out of that situation!
This is clear from the video.
He only drops his hands and goes for his gun *after* they have opened fire on him… murdering him in cold blood.
No doubt the Police and FBI had been pep talked into thinking and treating these guys as ‘Terrorists’.
And now they have murdered a Righteous defender of the constitution… and are waiting to see if they have gotten away with it.
Only the American people themselves can rise up at this outrage and show the evil government the consequences of their tyranny.
This is what the second amendment is all about.
Libertarian Christian Independent.
Citizens for Constitutional Freedom Support Group
Like This Page · 10 hrs · Edited ·
The FBI says that LaVoy reached twice for a 9mm gun inside his jacket on the left hip area. However, LaVoy carried a revolver on his right hip in a holster. The video shows that LaVoy’s jacket was closed at the time he was shot. Why would a right-handed man who carries a revolver openly on his right hip choose to leave his holster behind and instead hide another man’s 9mm gun on the inside of a jacket around his left hip? It’s as preposterous as the FBI’s thoroughly debunked claim that federal agents did not start the fires that burned 80+ men, women and children alive at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.
The FBI is lying. LaVoy’s vehicle was shot at one time at the first stop when Ryan put his hands and head out the window to speak to the feds. LaVoy’s vehicle was shot at several times as he drove away to seek the help and protection from the Grant County Sheriff. LaVoy’s windshield was shot from the front by an agent who jumped out in front of the vehicle at the second stop.
LaVoy was transporting an 18 year old girl with him who was visiting with her family to sing gospel music at the town hall they were traveling to. To save her, Shawna and Ryan Bundy, LaVoy jumped out of the vehicle with his hands in the air. He yelled out that if they were going to shoot someone, to shoot him. With his hands in the air, that is exactly what they did.
The first shot struck him on the left side of his body. His body began to buckle and his hands went down to the wound but he was ordered to put his hands back in the air. He tried to do so, but naturally returned his hands back to the wound. He turned and pointed at the vehicle, yelling out that there were women in it. Rushing up behind him, another agent put a laser pointer on LaVoy and shot him in the face. He was still moving on the ground when they shot him three more times.
It was cold-blooded murder. And the American people will not forget it. LaVoy is a martyr for the cause of justice and liberty. We will not stop fighting for our freedom. Harney County Oregon is our Bunker Hill. This is only the beginning.
Victoria Sharp Witnesses Lavoy Finicum Being Shot To Death
I have always believed that the ideal society is a meritocracy.
A meritocracy is a society in which each individual gets what he or she deserves. Anything less than this is unjust.
But that’s not saying very much. In fact, it’s not saying anything at all, unless accompanied by an account of what it is that each individual deserves. Preferably such an account will be a full-fledged moral theory, but let’s go pre-theoretical, and assume, just for the sake of my argument here, that each and every member of society deserves at least a roof over their head, a bed to sleep on, clean running water and enough to eat. Even our worst criminals are guaranteed this. (Oh, and ultra-fast broadband, of course, that most fundamental of all human rights.)
There are two main types of moral theory, viz., deontological and consequentialist. (Or three main types, if you count virtue ethics.)
Deontology (or Deontological Ethics) is an approach to Ethics that focuses on the rightness or wrongness of actions themselves, as opposed to the rightness or wrongness of the consequences of those actions (Consequentialism) or to the character and habits of the actor (Virtue Ethics).
(It’s all much more complicated, of course. Consequentialism is almost synonymous with utilitarianism, and as we all know utilitarianism is wrong, wrong, WRONG! Because Ayn Rand said so! And so did the man whom she described as “the most evil man who ever lived”! And so say I! Woe to him who creeps through the serpent-windings of utilitarianism. But, again just for the sake of my argument here, let’s not damn utilitarianism. Notwithstanding that it’s damnable.)
There are two main types of political ideology, viz., capitalism (by which I mean free trade without government intervention) and socialism (by which I mean free trade plus progressive taxation).
Now oversimplifying (somewhat more than) somewhat, capitalism is a deontological political ideology (whereby you get to keep everything you earn) and socialism is a utilitarian political ideology (whereby you get to keep a proportion of what you earn, the rest is redistributed by the state, ostensibly on the basis of need).
Capitalism basically says that you deserve to keep the fruits of your own labour, and to hell with the consequences. So capitalism is deontological in theory. And it can be considered as a species of voluntaryism. So it is virtuous in that sense. But it makes no explicit provision for caring for the poor and leads to ever-growing wealth inequality so is vicious from the point of view of utilitarianism.
Socialism, however, isn’t any better in practice. In fact, it is worse because its attempts at wealth redistribution (to achieve a more just distribution of wealth as per whatever measure of desert is used) only serve to achieve a different unjust distribution of wealth, usually by overtaxing the middle classes. (Let’s face it, the ultra-rich do indeed have more wealth than they can possibly need so are not actually any worse off if they pay a higher tax rate, and I am who to say.) So the middle classes get doubly screwed by a mixed economic system, first by unfettered capitalism and then by capitalism’s fetters.
So capitalism wins the day but it is still a badly flawed system.
Which is why I am neither a socialist nor a capitalist. I am an anarchist looking for a flavour of anarchism that has both the virtues of capitalism (it must be an entirely voluntaryist system) but yet serves to more or less guarantee that there is at least an adequate (albeit perhaps very basic) standard of living for all.
Footnote. Non-utilitarian versions of consequentialism are less vile. What if the moral basis of property rights is rule-consequentialism? Food for thought would be a great way to make a living.
The US Government has murdered a peaceful yet resolute Patriot and defender of the American Constitution, and arrested 7 others… all of whom were forthright dissenters against the governments ongoing violations of constitutional Law and the rights of Individuals.
They chose to commit this crime in a place where there would be the least amount of witnesses and in such a way that would allow them to control the media dialogue about what transpired.
They now await to see what reaction… if any… how the American people will respond.
This is a precursor for Martial Law and the crushing of the approaching Revolution which will occur when the America plunges off the Fiscal cliff.
Should there be no mass rallies about the country in outrage of this monumental crime, such apathy will no doubt signal to these Malevolent Powers that Americans dont give a shit about a few Bible believing 2nd amendment loving Honkeys and so they will be able to escalate their systematic implementation of measures designed to protect the Corrupt Status Quo from an uprising of the people … whom the founding documents of their nation… the American declaration of Independence and the constitution say Citizens have both the right and the moral duty to *Abolish the government* … by armed revolution if necessary…. when it becomes tyrannical and corrupt.
We all know the American government/police/etc murders people all the time… and that the ranks of the American Law enforcement are filled with Evil thugs that think little of Beating and shooting Americans to death… Men, women, and children.
The activities of Lavoy, nor his murder had anything to do with his Colour, yet we…. at the very ends of the Earth have witnessed the outrage of Black communities when *Innocent Black Americans* get slaughtered… yet who will protest when the victims of State violence are white?
You see what makes *this murder* particularly dire is that while it is very Politically correct to be outraged when a Black person gets killed by trigger happy Cops…. because ‘Black lives matter’…. yet when you are a seen as a Bible believing hick who refuses to surrender their right to bear arms…. then *It’s not PC* to give a shit about them!
The Media, and The Democrats under Obama has successfully labeled these defenders of Liberty and the second amendment… not as True American patriots… but as heartless and crazy scum who are responsible for all the Gun deaths in America.
Many of the Police want to completely disarm the American people so that they can Beat, Kill, and arrest anyone they desire without facing resistance to their jackbooted tyranny.
Many are Brick Stupid and will obey any order.
Others… more righteous Police… understand why they were employed…. what the Constitution expects of them… and that Guns save the lives of Citizens by giving them the means of protecting themselves from violent offenders… and rouge police.
Many have already declared they will disobey any ‘executive orders’ or ‘Legal fabrications’ that attempt to justify the confiscation of Arms from the American citizenry .
Yet we can be sure that in the short time that remains before the whole bankrupt house of cards collapses… that the powers that be will busy themselves ‘weeding out’ these Good, and righteous Police and Military personnel whom would ‘Refuse to follow orders’… just as they will be systematically removing Judges whom respect the constitution… the longer they can prolong the collapse… the more of their ambitions for consolidating their stranglehold over the American people will be implemented.
Satan Laughing spreads his wings.
‘Evil prevails when Good men do nothing’.
Unless the American people Rally in outrage… these things are inevitable… This much is clear to anyone who understands the modus opperandi of tyranny.
*Dont for one minute accept the sycophantic Idea that these patriots who the government has moved against are the dangerous criminals!*
The Greatest, Highest Law of the land is on their side!
The Criminals are the ones wearing the Badges, and giving the orders to Kill and arrest.
Lavoy Finnicum understood all of this.
To him the principles upon which America was built were sacred, and essential for the Life and liberty of himself, his family, friends and countrymen…of all races and creeds, and he has now sealed his commitment to the cause with his Life!
His God-Given Life was Stolen from him by the Powers of Mammon.
He is now an American Hero of the most important species.
I watch these events with sorrow and alarm.
It is far from over!
Please watch Gavin Seim explain what has happened… observe the righteousness of the cause… the nobleness of the manor of these Patriots whom are now labeled as ‘Enemies of the State’.
What has America become?
These are the sorts of Evils committed in Stalin’s USSR!
Watch this good mans vocal warning to America and understand why Governments around the world want to have the power to censor the internet… and silence the voices of principled dissent.
Take care all you peoples of the world to protect those voices among you whom boldly expose the evils of Officialdom… for they are the targets of the powers that be.
They desire nothing better than to Jail, torture, and science forever the voices of those who would rally the people to overthrow their Corrupt operations.
I shudder at the thought of just how apathetic… just how subservient and sheepish the average westerner is.
And it is this apathy and ignorance that allows the tyrants to Bankrupt, imprison, and destroy so many lives.
I implore you all *to get interested in politics* and not just the fashionable nutbar politics of Socialism, but learn about the inalienable rights of Individuals!
Learn what *Libertarianism* is all about and how it is the only true resistance to Tyranny and oppression in all it’s political forms.
Ignore my words at your peril.
Lavoy Finicum’s stand for Freedom facebook page >Here<
His family Responds to his murder..."
****Finicum Family Response to LaVoy’s Murder****
We thank all those reaching out to us in love during this difficult time. Your faithful prayers are felt. Please keep praying and keep using your voice to get the truth out. This fight against tyranny is not over. Press forward.
Forgiveness is what we can extend and understanding is what we want.
Christ was and is LaVoy’s exemplar. Though there are evil and conspiring men at work, Christ still forgave the executioners for they knew not what they did.
We give permission to all media to use this statement in their reports."
Watch Gavin!!! (Below)
Update: The FBI have released Drone/ chopper footage of their operation that resulted in them gunning down Lavoy.
See what transpired and commentary Here>>> The Murder of Lavoy Finicum. (2).
^ The stoning of Stephen… Ironically Saul would become St Paul the Greatest Apostle and chosen vessel of God to preach Grace unto humanity… ending Moral legalism. After meeting Christ and receiving his commission he never again picked up the stones. He said “If it be possible… as much as lieth in you live peaceably with all men”.
Among other principles … including the love of God towards all men *as individuals*, and their equality he laid down the principles that would one day give birth to Libertarianism and the concepts of God given inalienable rights of individuals…. yet my post is only indirectly about this.
Todays blog post is on a subject that has been fermenting in my mind for many years, and it is written just as much to myself as to others.
It has to do with my personal development as a human being… a growth in personal wisdom and character., and most importantly it is aimed at making me a more effective soldier in the battle of Ideas.
My life over the last 20 years has been in Flux…. High Highs and low lows… and via the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune I have battled forth …. Flailing my sword about driven by emotion as much as reason…. And emulating others as much as blazing my own trail… and this has had as many disadvantages as advantages.
Not only have I learned Good habits, but also very bad ones, and todays post is about understanding all this better, and attempting to up my game… and become a better person in the process.
It wont be easy… as not only does it involve breaking entrenched habits that have become natural to me but also provide me with a certain amount of pleasure… and on top of that it involves reinventing my own Self-image of who I am… loosing some vices that I have mistaken as virtues and as such given me self esteem when I should have felt shame… and yet if I succeed in this I will start to see the virtues of character traits I have held to be vices… and I expect to generate a new basis for self esteem… via improved character and more effectiveness as a crusader for Truth, justice, and the salvation of individuals.
Big claims huh! :-)… yet definitely worthy of contemplation.
Lets get into it …
In these times of Terror and barbarity, it is commonplace to find the so-called lovers of Liberty to be openly pouring out hatred upon Muslims because of their concepts of Sharia Law, Jihad, intolerance, and brutality and so that even their most benign activities receive the most vehement responses.
You can be sure that at any mention of Islam that within minutes Self Righteous people seeking to promote terror and hate will post un-moderated pictures and accounts of atrocities that are supposed to foster and vindicate their outrage and hatred towards Muslims.
This is particularly noticeable in the attitudes of the disciples of that most militant of atheists… Ayn Rand… who collectively go by the name of ‘Objectivists’… yet also is common place rationale among other Non-Muslims… Jews, Hindus… and tragically… among the majority of those who go by the name of Christian.
What bothers me is that this negativity and outrage…. While at face value appears both Natural and justified… it does little towards actually saving the world, but plays into the hands of the terrorists and haters.
It is great at stirring up support for closing boarders to the Displaced, and Sending in the stealth Bombers…. Yet we have all herd the motto that while military action can be essential and justified… that wars are ultimately won in *battlefield of the minds of humanity.*
That forced peace due to military might is always short lived… with the evil still fermenting *as hatred*… just under the surface… just waiting for fresh opportunity to boil over again.
What I am about to say is not only worth contemplating in regards to ultimately winning the ideological war against Islamic extremism, but I believe is valuable in all aspects of the winning support for truth and enlightenment.
Here is an example of the problem as I see it…
Recently I came across some Objectivist Atheists engaged in their favorite past time of slinging shit at Islam… under the pretense that this was Righteous Indignation against an insidious Evil… yet for the record this conversation could just as well have been found coming from Christian supporters of Donald Trump.
A school was having a “Try the Hijab Day”…. followed by the comment ‘Why not have a “Try a Nazi Uniform day” also?’.
Sure enough the following comment and picture was solicited…
“Well done XXXX XXXXXX. What a great man you are. Islamic sadism is a terrible thing. Murderous attacks on innocent female victims including even infants are not just the action of a lone wolf or even of the multiple “lone wolves” involved. .There is an appalling mindset inculcated and encouraged from birth, so embedded and reinforced that not even one individual does anything to deter the horrific violence against the powerless. In civilised communities public entertainment comes in the form of sporting contests, musical entertainment and events uplifting for families. In savage anti-humanity societies public entertainment is a large hate-filled crowd of males exulting in the worst imaginable brutality.”
^^^That escalated quickly! … yet is typical.
The post went from an inter-cultural school lesson designed to ‘de-alienate children into an attempt to subvert them into accepting… maybe even committing atrocities!
Of course the terrible deeds committed in the name of Islam should generate indignation and elicit vocal responses, yet identifying problems and evils is at best only the beginning of the solution… and I believe that too many people allow *the problem* to cloud their better judgment and actually turn them into just another part of the problem rather than taking the higher road that leads the world out of darkness.
Terrorism and brutality ferment reciprocal hatred…. an unqualified blind type of hatred that is quick to pass a sentence of collective guilt upon an entire demographic because of the activities of a few.
Those drawn into this mindset mistake bigotry for righteous outrage and this is exactly what the terrorists, and hate groups feed upon.
This sort of reciprocity highlights the dilemma of being a Libertarian who hopes to create a better world.
As a Christian Libertarian I myself believe Islam to be a dangerous false religion,and am not at all surprised by the horrors that are being committed in it’s name, yet in the same token I also know that Atheism is also a dangerous false religion and that it too is responsible for infinite evils.
I also know that many so-called Christians are vile Statists… that they too support political oppression, and I respect the right of people to express their views, and criticize others.
Yet as a Libertarian I know not to be suckered into bogus collectivist mentality that underpins Bigotry.
While exercising my right to express my views, and fulfilling my duty to God to defend the faith,
I dont say *All Muslims* *All Atheists* are ‘Blar’ ‘Blar’… I try to avoid promoting bigotry.
With regards to Islamiphobia, it is sometimes too easy to post horrible pictures of victims of various hate groups… without clarifications… this is usually done *to promote bigotry… to illicit support for nasty prejudices*… and that is why It is very hard to be a Good Libertarian…. Speaking out against bigotry ,yet without underplaying the veracity of legitimate concerns .
And here I get to the crux of my argument for this post… the point in which I seek to improve my own game…
I believe this ‘essential balance’ between boldly facing heinous truths, yet not falling into bigotry can only be done by the sincere of heart who are prepared to look at both sides of any contentions… and to be found to be discussing things as objectively as possible… and that is never achieved by over-generalizations… and furthermore by looking not only at the truthfulness of contentious issues, but just as essentially *at the heart motive* of both ourselves… and of the Diatribes we encounter.
It is only if we maintain a clean heart… free of Rancor… motivated by Love…with our eyes on the prize … that we can be effective evangelists of enlightenment.
I am not saying I have mastered these arts.
In fact I am sure I haven’t… yet I am aware of the ‘Bad habit’ and base ‘pleasure’ that comes from opening up cans of malice upon the objects of our scorn.
I try to reserve that sort of ‘disregard’ for those whom I believe truly embody willful Evil… those whom have no desire to see their own wickedness… but revel in it… yet still you cant expect pouring out indignation to win anyone for truth!
It is in this sense an admission of frustration and defeat.
It is a sad truth that *some people*… many people are beyond reason… even those who claim to be champions of it!
The human factor is always at work… the bible says “the heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.”, and again “That this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world but that men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.”
The problem with dishing out Evil for evil is that while it is relatively easy to identify evil values and beliefs, and to take some sort of pleasure from the idea that we are morally superior, yet after this what do we do with our knowledge?
Do we allow it to ferment hatred and justify aggression, justify building walls from which we throw righteous stones? (its amazing who condemns the stoning of sinners in the old testament yet who support their governments doing the same thing and worse… to foreigners with foreign beliefs)
Or do we try and overcome ideological evils via the higher path… via enlightened values… reason and example?
Do we even care about those people lost in darkness enough to open up and maintain dialogues, or do we write them off as wicked reprobates and stamp their foreheads with ‘Child of Satan’?
I believe that if the world is going to become more free and civil requires not just military supremacy, but Victories of enlightenment and good will to triumph over Darkness and reciprocal malevolence… and this can only be done by ‘Lovers’ not ‘haters’.
Our societies must not only truly embody Libertarian justice and equality, but also the spirit of benevolence towards ‘the lost’, and a desire to ‘win’ them over in their hearts and minds…. And these are ‘Christian humanitarian values towards the lost’ and why Christianity is one of the few ideologies with the power to overcome savagery, Crime, evil superstitions, and bigotry.
I am not simply saying that Christianity practiced well is both truthful and righteous… which it is… but that everybody… non-Christians as well can learn valuable insights into how to stimulate the growth of civilization… how to bring light and peace into areas of Darkness and Barbarism.
I also say that these truths expose Rancid ideologies that pose as Reason and enlightenment yet are in fact hotbeds of bigotry and hate… and that despite their self-acclamation as being the champions of humanity and social progress… are actually a big part of the problem!
They are almost as backward and deranged as the evils they profess to be the vanguard against.
Thus we must take care how we wield our Ideological swords.
Too often the ‘Superiority complex’ is used as justification for Hatred, bigotry, and pouring out Guile…. which only exacerbates the troubles and further alienates those who we should be trying to lead up the higher path.
And This is why the *heart motive* behind what we write and say determines the ‘Spirit’ of actions and the success or failure in respect to the war of ideas.
For sure Tirades that spew forth hot coals upon their chosen targets are ‘successful’ for attracting the applause and fame within other haters yet absolutely fail at bringing more enlightenment into the world.
I think there are times and places to have ‘in house’ pep talks to the troops that may be spoken in strong terms to emphasize the gravity of what is at stake… and the urgency with which they must rally, yet that cant be a summary of your entire modus opperandi!
You need to make it clear the while the evils are vile, and that arms may be needed, not to mistake this as an excuse to become a hater… and that Goodwill towards humanity must always be at the forefront.
If we realize that most people in dark lands believe backward things only do so because they have not been exposed to the truth in a way that they can see as being not only true… but delivered by souls of good will who *want their betterment*… this is far more likely to increase the sum in favour of enlightenment and lead to real victories in the battle of Ideas.
Missionaries are just as essential as Arms in the struggle as ultimately it is only an enlightenment that can overcome Evil ideologies.
And this is basic stuff… because we know that we ourselves are far more likely to respond positively to truths that are presented out of care than out of hate.
I found this…From someone who actually won over hearts and minds rather than just pouring out scorn… upon those who deserved it.
Actions speak louder than words
Now look at this pic below posted to an Objectivist FB page, and think about what such cartoons hope to achieve.
Read the comments
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Bf That kind of shit will plug up your pipes in the worst way.
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J M Throw the Bible in there as well to make it even better.
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Now read my comment…
Tim Wikiriwhi You know XXXXX that I can see the amusement factor in this picture… *yet contemplate this for a moment*… do you think it actually serves to further the cause of Freedom?
Do you think that it will be propitious in convincing Muslims to listen to you… to forsake Islam and embrace your values and ideals?
Dont you understand that this is actually childish and counter productive to your professed desire to enlighten the world?
Dont you see that this merely panders to the Haters… the bigots, those people who dont give a shit about *Saving the muslims*… but seek to insult them and vent hatred upon them?
Like • Reply •
I receive a typical response …. And my answer follows
B R said…. “ They will never forsake their values or their ideals. That is not islam. Islam is above any other ideals. To them anyone other than islam is beneath them. You can’t reason with someone who always thinks he is above you. You can bow to their needs. They will never bow to yours. How many women and children have to be raped and murdered for you to see this.”
Like • Reply • 2 hrs
My Reply…. “B R.. You have defeated yourself… maybe willfully so…. what you have said is something *You want to believe* rather than something that is empirically true, and you do it to excuse your own lack of reason when dealing with this problem.
You say they are beyond reason when the truth is ‘You cant be bothered trying… and you actually *hate* them… ie you dont have any compassion…. yet you have plenty of spleen that you want to vent.
Your character is such that you cant even be polite to them.
You look down your nose at them.
And you are cowardly.
The idea of befriending a Muslim terrifies you.
Let me tell you that Plenty of Muslims have been converted to Christianity by Christians who *Care enough* to take the trouble, and run the risks.
Christians *see the prize* and believe it’s worth every effort.
Wining lost souls to the truth… to truth that raises savages out of Dark superstitions and brings civilization… and ends Barbarisms…. fosters good will and peaceful co-existence.
Christianity sees Muslims and atheists *as valuable … precious individuals*… not as hopelessly Damned sub-humans.
Now if Objectivism really did value the human individual… really was ‘a movement for civilization’ it would not generate such defeatism , indifference…. Worse absolute hatred towards billions of human beings.
Like • Reply • Just now
^^^ So my post looks to be finishing on a condemnation of the philosophy of Objectivism as *Anti-Individualism*
*Anti-Humanity* …. A Wolf in sheeps clothing.
Every virtue it pretends to extol are found to be Hot air…. mere platitudes.
It does not tend towards enlightenment and the value of human individuals and that is why it’s ranks are peopled with egotistical narcissists of malicious minds… and this leads them to promoting very *inhuman solutions* in dealing with the likes of the Victims of Islamic extremism and western foreign policy… solutions completely at variance with the founding principles of Libertarianism… esp with regards to the current Refugee crisis.
No doubt my comments here will not find many Objectivists open enough to see that I am right.
They might even say that I’m practicing ‘hate speech’ against them… that I’m not being PC enough towards them … that by my hardness I am not demonstrating ‘love’ towards them, and so failing on every level to reach *Their hearts and minds*…. Yet even if this were true… would not such an accusation actually vindicate my whole post?
You see that even if I fail to live up to this post myself, it does not diminish its validity… it just exposes my own hypocrisy, and poor character.
Ironically I learned this polemic ‘Militancy’ from my Objectivist mentors!
This is a fact that i now seek to remedy.
It is more characteristic of the Pharisee Saul *Before* he met the risen Christ.
St Paul typifies conversion from the spirit of Moralistic persecution.
His zeal for the truth, is tempered by compassion and humanity,… the true spirit of Evangelism… and he was willing to lay his life down for it.
Nobody has been a more ardent defender of truth against superstition, yet still he used the power of persuasion to win converts… from a loving heart not self righteous malice.
He said “… yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.”
Maybe Paul appreciated the grace God had shown him when he was in the throws of self righteous persecution.
Maybe his compassion comes from being once blind… yet by God’s grace… now he sees… and he knows that without brave preachers of grace and Good will… large swaths of humanity will remain under Satan’s Demonic sway… and be damned.
Realising my own problem… I am hereby seeking to learn better skills of communication… and this is what I meant in my introduction about this post being aimed as much at myself as at others.
Let me again talk about balance. I am not an apologist for ‘Politically Correctness’.
I believe The truth should be ruggedly defended and that content is far more important than grammar and worrying 24/7 about offending petty sensitivities… in fact as a Westy Bogan I simply cant function at that ‘Ivory tower level’… nor do I seek to be a part of that ‘elevated’ world.
I speak as a common man hoping to reach common people using common folk lingo and rationale.
And when talking to the likes of Objectivists you would hope that for all their claims of Rugged rationality that they of all people ought to be able to handle the truth hard spoken… yet again we find their claims to be hot air…. They love to dish it out but cant handle the slightest amount in return… so precious are their sensitivities… so vain are their egos …. They are not just beyond reproach… they are beyond reason.
I await *just one objectivist* to admit that I my post has validity, and that they will try and modify their behavior… to better embody the values their philosophy claims to precipitate.
I wrote a speech 10 years ago for the NZ Libz party, In it I talk about why I believe Objectivism fails to win over hearts and minds… and why Christianity on the other hand changed world history… and it has a lot to do with what I have been trying to talk to you about in this thread.
It is below.
I would like to point out that while I am no fan of PC rubbish, I think it is too easy… too convenient to pull out the ‘PC is evil’ card to justify rancid and obnoxious, and bigoted Tirades that are then expected to be vindicated as ‘Righteous indignation’… and ‘Rugged defense of liberty’ … etc when it is just Guile…
So To all you out there involved in the Battle of Ideas… no matter what color of faith or values you seek to propagate in this world, I hope my post helps you to appreciate that for victory in this ideological Battlefield, that *Heart motive* is just as important as being right.
It is sad to apprehend that sometimes the advocates of Evil understand this truth better than anyone, and that is why many of them *pretend* to care about those people in distress… only to lead them to destruction.
Libz 10th birthday speech.
Monday, 31 July, 2006 11:23 PM
By Tim Wikiriwhi Christian Libertarian.
Good morning brothers and sisters!
This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it!
Today’s sermon is about integrity to truth and justice!
I want talk from my own philosophy and show how it keeps me committed to our party in the face of much hardship and I also want to question the validity of other philosophies that I see as detrimental to our cause.
In the spirit of friendship I have endeavoured to keep any criticism as impersonal as possible and yet as individualistic as possible so not to unfairly lump goodies with baddies simply because they all hang out under the same banner.
Most people here know I’m a Christian and though I will be unashamedly using Christian concepts, I hope non-Christians listening will be objective enough to see the points I am making as valid in spite of their religious origins.
If the shoe fits I hope you have the integrity to wear it!
Having set the tenor of my speech I shall now get into it!
I could have called this speech “Who Dares Wins” but I prefer to call it “Keeping the faith” Don’t become a Luke warm Libertarian!
We must Attack! Attack! Attack! With our dying breath! Attack!
This aint no game people! This is war!
Peoples lives are being destroyed!
Children are dying!
The most frustrating thing for me as an activist is convincing those poor souls out there who are being ram-rodded by the socialist tyrants to throw their lot in with the Libertarian party and putting up the necessary cash to win the fight, even when they can see we are 100% right!
This is so frustrating! I am busting my ass trying to help them but they wont even help themselves!
Did I just say that the sheeple are the most frustrating thing?
Let me now tell you that they aren’t the most frustrating! There is something much worse!
What is much more frustrating is that so many people who are members of our party, and claim to be passionate about freedom, never put themselves out in the slightest little inconvenience for the values they profess to hold dear!
What more a high percentage drop off after a period of good work as if they have done their bit!
I want to talk about this…about what bullshit is used to justify dropping the ball and why this is a travesty!
Why is it so hard to get Libertarians to go to meetings?
It has often been said that trying to organise any libertarian activity is like herding cats!
This is a disgrace! And I consider this a fundamental problem!
Recently I was asked a very important question…it was “Do you really believed it is possible to get a Libertarian government here in New Zealand?”
And I found that I could honestly answer, “Yes!”
I think this point is of vital importance!
So many great freedom fighters seam to loose faith in the dream and drift into inactivity.
We have many talented new faces, yet we are not gaining numerical strength on the front!
‘Loss of faith’ seams to keep us from making real gains.
Why is this?
The bible talks about different kinds of people and what they do with the seed of truth.
Some people are called “The wayside” where the truth cannot take root.
Others are the stony/shallow ground where the seed may sprout and shoot up, but when the heat of the day comes, the seed quickly withers and dies for lack of root and depth.
Some are called “the good soil” in which the seed shoots forth and is able to weather the heat and in due season bares much fruit!
I ask what sort of ground are you? How good is your value system?
Are you a Possibility thinker or an Impossibility thinker?, A pessimist, or an optimist?
People quit the party over petty little disputes or because someone like myself was too crass and not P.C enough to be worthy of their company!
We get the “ I must quit for personal reasons”…I always wonder what bullshit reasons are good enough?
Few quit for reasons of life and death!
Most are quitting for shameful reasons, and that disappoints me.
This lack of conviction makes me feel not pity but contempt!
The Bible says that “no man putting his hands to the plough yet looking back is fit for the kingdom!”
Some quitters retreat with the cowardly excuse that “only deluded dreamers believe the Libertarianz party will ever get its act together!
I say this sort of pessimistic self-defeatism is self-defeating!
It is political suicide!
I see this lack of faith and resolve as the greatest enemy we face!
Our own irresolute determination to remain committed to the cause to our dying breath!
There is no reason/passion dichotomy!
If you don’t have the passion…There must be something wrong with your reasoning!
The Devil wants us to quit And would love to see our party fold! And guess what…The socialists aren’t beating us! We’re quitting due to our own fickleness!
Sloth and apathy are great sins!
Don’t give in to such temptations!
Never choose the low road!
Why do I reject defeatism and believe it is possible for Libertarian victory in our lifetime?
Well, first of all the competition is morally bankrupt to their core and utterly absurd!
I say to be quitters or fence sitters in the light of this indisputable fact is in itself an unforgivable lack of character and integrity!
“Lord give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference!”
Where’s your head at?
Where is your self respect founded?
Don’t go fooling yourself by thinking you are facing facts or being realistic when you deny the possibility of the Libertarianz party making global history and a giant leap forward in human civilisation!
You are being a quitter pure and simple a U.I.N!
You have no claim to a greater truth or higher reason
You are shirking the burden of carrying the torch of freedom and the scales of justice, pure and simple!
They are heavy but glorious!
And I can find no tolerable excuse for faltering in the face of the enemy!
The socialists aren’t beating us…were quitting due to our own fickleness!
The bible says that the lukewarm are to be spewed from God’s mouth!
As Individualist’s, when no one is prepared to stand beside us, we ought to be prepared to fight on alone, tooth and nail!
Loneliness ought to make you even more determined not to falter!
“Evil prevails when good men do nothing!”
The bible tells us never to forget our first love!
Never forget the principles and reasons you joined our party.
They become even more valid as time goes by.
Not less relevant, not less believable and essential, but more so every day!
Values are to be weighed against each other and the value of always choosing to sit on your ass smelling the roses instead of exhausting your time and resources in the Libertarian cause means you value pleasure more than justice.
What sort of human is that? A debauchee!
Certainly not a man of virtue!
While hundreds of so-called Libertarians sit on their arses, the Legions of Hell are marshalling!
Rust never sleeps!
We must daily review our highest values and renew our commitment to what is right and good!
In my view it is a very noble and great honour to work for the success of the party.
It is the measure of our integrity and fortitude!
I say “All play and no work makes Jack a very dull boy!”
What sort of person are you?
What moves you to action and to despise your own fears?
Why be active?
Why heavily invest yourself personally in this party?
I say for freedom lovers it is irrational not to commit yourself fully to the Libertarian cause!
If this cause is not important enough to get you out of your comfort zone what is?
In my ethical code full commitment to the party is not only the purest form of self-defence it is something even more praise worthy.
It is the defence of the poor, the week and the needy!
I.e. it is also the highest expression of charity and love of our fellow man!
A philosophy that does not include such love is shallow indeed!
Therefore to abandon this cause is to poison your soul with uncharitable inconsideration of your fellow human beings.
True love makes you go out of your way for others!
My Grandfather wisely reminds me that “No man is an island”
Free society, rights, etc are community values and meaningless to the lone castaway on a deserted island! My Grandfather is 100% right!
Being an individualist is no excuse for being uncharitable and I question the validity of a rational selfishness that excludes concern for others!
I say that’s a perverse individualism and the philosophy of cold self-conceit and a failure to value human life!
Think about Bill Gates. Is he a fool giving all his money to charity or is he a saint? How you answer that question will be a yardstick for your humanity.
I say Bill Gates is one of the greatest human beings ever to grace this earth!
He’s someone to aspire to, not merely for his genius but especially because of his heart!
Bill is my kind of guy!
Bill has won my heart and respect!
I’m not interest in hearing about his sins!
I ask, what sort of Libertarian society is possible without voluntary consideration of your fellow man and the desire for the common good?
The scripture says “though I have all wisdom yet not charity I am nothing!”
I ask how successful can any party be that is inconsiderate of the common good and does not make this a chief factor in seeking support.
That is just plain stupid and the public can see your fickleness!
That you don’t really give a damn about them!
I say the common good ought to be worthy of our inconvenience and is a vital yet grossly undervalued component in our fight!
Do you have a compassionate heart?
If you say you do, then I say “prove it!” by resolving never to waiver from the Libertarian cause!
Don’t tell me you care when you are backsliding from activism and party business!
Everything I am saying is aimed at our “ought ness” in the light of our own individual values. Nothing I have said is in anyway contrary to Individual voluntary action, Indeed it is the voluntary choice to commit ourselves to such a worth cause that gives us the right to have self esteem and to claim the high ground as the defenders of truth , justice and the common good! If any of you are mumbling under your breath that I’m trying to ensnare you in bondage to the collective I feel very sorry for you!
I’ll go further and say Altruism is a great good, and that you have been sold a giant Mickey if you think self sacrifice for the good of others can have no place in virtue for the individualist!
Right to claim a value always entails a cost or else its just lip service. Action defines personal values!
Long suffering is the keynote of high value.
A cost free value system is irrational and a cheap fake!
Even true friendship means we must be prepared to risk offending and loosing that friendship if we see the need to rebuke them for their own good!
The higher the value the more we must be prepared to sacrifice for it’s sake to claim it as our own. This being true it logically follows that Altruism is heroic when practised voluntarily and Jesus Christ was a great man of virtue!
He said it was out of love that he would give his life for his friends, and was faithful to his beliefs unto death even the death of the cross!
This is heroism!
The volunteer fireman, who risks the inferno for the sake of others.
The heroic rescue workers that entered the Twin towers on 9/11 and never came out!
The Christian heroes that died fighting evil in the flight that was supposed to hit the Whitehouse!
The army soldier who falls upon a grenade as a human shield for his Brothers in Arms!
These are indisputably mans greatest kind of deeds and acts of love and as such are worthy of the greatest honour!
Contrary to what Rand says, Altruism, in it’s true sense, is voluntary and is the highest expression of individualist values and character!
It is Love!
It opposite is a deluded egotistical ‘covetousness of self’ as the centre of reality! Self-worshipping Megalomania!
Sadam Insane is an ‘Egoist’ so was Adolf Hitler!
Yes we Individualists ought to be prepared to die for our faith and those we love.
Not to have contempt for death and hardship and relentlessly attack the enemy is to give the enemy the advantage!
They are often prepared to die for their beliefs!
Look at the suicide bombers!
Do they have values superior to yours?
They must if they will sacrifice their lives for them but many Libz wont even inconvenience themselves in the slightest to support your local Libz candidates!
I have made this point because my goal of this speech has been to inquire into the philosophical origins of inertia, and I see a collection of shallow excuses for denying what is indisputably the most heroic and noble of values… Altruist self sacrifice!
And this is a most common excuse for sloth in party activism and lack of willingness to carry the party’s burdens voluntarily and with honour.
I ask the question that if we were in ancient Greece facing the Persian horde who among you would stand at Thermopile?
They who will not inconvenience themselves in the fight against our pathetic socialist enemy, I guarantee would flee and die as cowards!
Christ said a philosophy may be known by its fruit.
Do you have love in your heart or contempt?
Many egoists, hiding behind ‘Individualism’, go out of their way to find fault with good Samaritans like Mother Teresa, and then fall over themselves praising someone who leaves a man to die in favour of getting to the top of a hill!
They do this so their peers will give them glory for being rugged egoists and to make themselves and their egoist buddies feel good about not giving a damn about anything but themselves!
And that’s a real ugly philosophy!
And it shows despite claims of integrity and honour!
That’s contempt for your fellow man!
That is not a passionate or compassionate philosophy but a dispassionate cold, and loveless one!
By that fruit I know its full of shit!
And the relevant point regarding party activism is that individuals with that philosophy have no problems ignoring a call to arms whenever it suits them and especially when there is little chance of personal glory!
That philosophy is costing our party dearly!
Both in lost manpower at the front and making our party ugly even when support such support is forthcoming!
I say Mark Inglis is a legless hypocrite and an asshole, not a hero!
He’s an Egoist!
“Stepping over corpses is the price of greatness” according to Hedrich Himmler! (And I say this total disregard for others is also the logical conclusion of atheism!)
Experts say David Sharp might have been saved and Sir Edmond Hillary would have forsaken his attempt at the summit and given it a shot!
He’s a real man of virtue not a vain poser!
And despite some silly ideas, Mother Teresa was a real Hero!
To paraphrase Barbara Brandon… “I have long since graduated from the school that perfection is the price of admiration, and I wonder from what lofty moral height some dare to gaze down onto a woman like Mother Teresa! Since she did not act according to their terms, her life of love and caring for the weak is seen as having no value! I do inquire into their psychology and I say their contempt does not become them. It stresses their distance from reality!
Enough said about bad philosophy, and why many Libertarians are as useless as tits on a bull to our party!
Self-serving, self-glorifying, small-minded intellectual masturbators!
The Bible says that “though we have all wisdom yet not charity we are nothing!”
Socialism is a giant tragedy and so if your heart is not breaking there is something wrong with you!
Christianity changed the world because it is a philosophy of Love and a call to action!
It has brought civilisation to the darkest regions of mankind!
It has turned cannibals into lovers of humanity!
How does your philosophy measure up to that?
Do you understand that hate can only be overcome by love?
Despite our many troubles and conflicting views, I’m still proud to be a member of this group and I’m prepared to continue to bare troubles and toils for its sake.
The Libertarianz Party does count because we force the public to choose between slavery and freedom!
You cant tell me that this isn’t an absolutely worthy truth that demands the man of virtue always to step up for the party, and hold it dear!
This party ought to be the embodiment of what makes you tick and of who you are!
And to live without making the greatest effort to achieve its goals is to fail to appreciate its greatness, and to grossly undervalue what has been built up to attack the enemy and liberate us from great evils.
What have I achieve with this speech?
Hopefully I have started a revolution within a revolution!
I have done my utmost to encourage you all never to be quitters no matter what!
I have tried to expose the grievous weakness of egoism in revolutionary action and promote love as a chief overcoming motive energy.
By doing this you can swap a fake egoism for real self esteem and change Objectivism from the ultimate pragmatism into true Idealism!
Perigo had no qualm disputing Rand in regards to homosexuality, and I’m hopping you will do it again and acknowledge that Individualism need not be anti-altruism and indeed that when it is voluntary it empowers us to stand for our highest values and instils a heroic contempt for death and hardship!
Cowardly defeatism is for losers!
I call you all to live a heroic life for victory and start turning up to Libz meetings on a regular basis!
I pray for the strength to live up this high calling myself!
Of wearing the emblem of the Freedom Fighter!
I expect to see you all next year up at Waitangi!
God bless the Libertarianz!
What compels people to make such hazardous journeys risking the lives of their children, knowing that even if they survive the trip they will be aliens living in strange lands, and at constant risk from Hostile elements?
War… Bombs… terror…. starvation and tyranny…. that’s what.
“We just need somebody to understand us.” Syrian refugee Shaimae, 15, on the Serbia-Croatia border.#save #humanity
What makes me sick is all the Anti-refugee mongers who call this desperate bid for safety… ‘an invasion’.
It’s a typical ploy to justify their cold hearted cowardice and bigotry… and preference for the millions of displaced people to Die at their gate rather than face the troubles that come with granting these people refuge.
Recent events in Europe regarding Gangs of migrants molesting woman are of course very disturbing for any civilised human being… including most migrants, yet of course there exists that massive Faction of Far Right extremists who …. being the complete Fascist Racist Barbarians that they are… use these incidents as an excuse to run rampant and vent their hatred upon anyone that is not the same colour as they are… destroying Kabab shops etc, owned by people who have had nothing to do with the troubles.
This is Collectivism at it’s finest!
Tribalism… in which the rationale is that it is ok to blame *all members* of any hated demographic for the crimes of a small minority of their members.
And Recent media sensationalism tends to promote the Alarm without balance.
By Balance I am not simply referring to One eyed reporting that never seems to give room in their articles for migrants to express *Their outrage and disgust* for the activities of the delinquent migrants… giving the impression that they all think and act the same way.
On top of this nobody ever balances the problems Europe faces with it’s refugees with what the alternatives would be like if they had refused refuge… The absolute carnage, and chaos.
Though the situation is dire… and Lawlessness is brewwing, It is my firm belief that these troubles are far far less than would be faced if these Masses of desperate people had been locked out.
My point being *The Crisis was/is Real*… and because Shit is hitting the fan… one way or another it was never going to be an easy road… an easy solution!
So without appreciating this and keeping this reality at the forefront of our minds, The anti-refugee propaganda is able to paint the benevolence of people like Angela Merkel, and the Germans who supported her as being a tremendous mistake… wooly headed foolishness…. treachery even.
As an insulated observer from afar, I still face moral dilemmas in my vocal support for the Refugees in Europe because it is not My wife… my daughters who are endangered by these gangs of drunken deviant Migrant men.
The conundrum being for people like myself is that we can either be Vocal advocates on behalf of the Plight of the refugees, or Vocal Fearmongers highlighting the danger many Muslim men pose to woman, or We could simply remain silent.
Yet still no matter what position we choose… we remain isolated and to a large extent, not intimately affected by what is happening.
I have chosen to support the Refugees because I believe their plight is the greatest, and their need for heroic humanitarianism the most acute, and that silence in the face of Children being Bombed, and washing up on beaches to be almost as reprehensible as the bigotry that willfully turns a blind eye.
I understand the issues regarding the dangers of a large influx of un-vetted migrants… esp from Islamic nations with customs and mentalities that are backwards and oppressive by Western liberal standards,and I under ordinary circumstances, I would never expect nations to allow it without some rudimentary process by which they agree that their entry and stay is conditional to their peaceful and respectful behavior… yet because of the humanitarian crisis which required a brave and humane response…. such a process simply was not possible.
This means the process must be systematically done *Now*… with all Refugees whom have entered Europe… weeding out those whom display threatening characteristics.
Failure by the authorities to keep the peace and control the trouble makers will result in even more violence against innocent parties… of both Citizens and migrants.
I will not delude myself about the powder keg that blow up at any moment, not simply because of the uncivilized attitude of these migrant gangs towards woman, but also because of Gangs the Fascist Right.
*Both these factions* generate more hatred, violence, and multiply the numbers of innocent victims.
All the while Isis Laughs…. and spreads its wings.
Two more problems in Western democracies which make it harder and more dangerous to receive masses of unvetted Refugees is most of these nations have dis-armed their own citizens leaving them defenseless should they be confronted by criminals, and secondly because of their Welfare systems which are already sucking the life blood out of their productive sectors.
That Influxes of refugees threaten to overwhelm these socialist innovations… the socialists are getting nasty and harbor hatred for Refugees.
Socialism is ultimately Heartlessly selfish.
Read here>>> In egalitarian Denmark, tide of refugees challenges ‘social contract’
Those who would dare to govern heap upon themselves Mammoth Moral Responsibilities, and face the most perplexing and traumatic Dilemmas in which Innocent lives are at stake.
Some will argue that a governments first/ only responsibility is to provide security to it’s own citizens… yet would letting thousands of people die at your gate tend towards ‘security’?
Not only could they out of desperation become *A real attacking horde*, the Inhumanity of such a move would play right into the Geopolitical ambitions of the Terrorist groups like Isis… making them stronger….vindicating their assertions that the West is Evil.
Would not keeping the Gates closed prove such a society to be just as heartless as Isis itself?
Would not such a cold response not prove that Evil has won… That it had gotten *inside* and rotted the Soul of the nations?
I believe so.
The Governments of Europe need to mobilize their security forces and deploy them in such a manor as to keep the Fascist gangs and Lawless Migrants in check, and start systematically processing the refugees.
Further afield The Global community needs to declare outright war against Isis, and utterly destroy them before untold more millions are murdered and displaced.
Despite the massive numbers flooding into Europe, Millions more Refugees have fled to nations surrounding Syria
Read here>>> 4 million more
I dont profess to understand what is happening in Syria, yet from where I sit it appears to me that despite his suit and tie, Assad is a bloody and desperate tyrant.
He has a powerful Ally in Putin, who appears to think keeping Assad in power is Good for his Geopolitical ambitions.
I will never buy the Idea that Putin is at all concerned about what is best for Syria… just what is best for Russia.
Five years of grief, and continues to expand the woundFive years of sorrow and the wound was still bleeding#save #humanity
These are my thoughts at present.
The scale of the Crisis is staggering.
We cannot expect anything other than ongoing chaos…. ongoing hatred… and death.
The Soul of Humanity is at stake…. If Chaos gets out of hand it will play into the hands of the two hate groups… Radical Islam represented by Isis, etc… and The Fascist Far Right who grow in numbers in all western Nations… those who Hate Merkel in Germany,…. those who want Donald Trump for President of the USA,etc.
I have already defriended many associates from my facebook page because of their Fascist Inhumanity… yet with every sensationalist media report of Refugees committing violence… the more their numbers grow… the less people desire to give help to the refugees…. which are still washing up on the beaches…
"How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?"Penn Jillette, outspoken atheist and one half of the comedy magician duo Penn & Teller, recorded this video in 2008 recounting the story of how a man gifted him a Bible after one of their Las Vegas shows. It's amazing to see Penn's reaction to the man's gesture as this video shows an inside view of how to evangelize to an atheist. • Subscribe to the NAYC Rumors YouTube channel for more Jesus' name videos! YouTube.com/naycrumors •