"How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?"Penn Jillette, outspoken atheist and one half of the comedy magician duo Penn & Teller, recorded this video in 2008 recounting the story of how a man gifted him a Bible after one of their Las Vegas shows. It's amazing to see Penn's reaction to the man's gesture as this video shows an inside view of how to evangelize to an atheist. • Subscribe to the NAYC Rumors YouTube channel for more Jesus' name videos! YouTube.com/naycrumors •
Posted by NAYC Rumors on Tuesday, January 12, 2016
As is his wont, my King James Bible believing Dispensationalist libertarian Christian co-blogger Tim tagged me in his post (of the above image) on Facebook. 🙂
Be sure to get your doctrine from the Bible, not the traditions of man! (Colossians 2:8)
I really do appreciate the pro-tip. It’s just that there’s a whole lotta problems with this instruction. At least one of which renders Tim’s advice utterly useless!
One problem is that the cited verse, Colossians 2:8, does not even mention the Bible.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (KJV)
See! What this verse is really saying is be sure to get your doctrine from Christ, not the traditions of man! I agree! But let’s be clear. There’s no mention at all of the Bible in this verse. And I’ve made it quite clear in previous blog posts what my view is. It is that Jesus is inerrant, but the Bible isn’t. The Word of God is inerrant. His scribes, not so much. Yes, that’s right. I basically equate the Bible with “the traditions of man”. I don’t equate the Bible with Christ. The Bible as we know it hasn’t even been around a couple of thousand years yet. Whereas
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (DARBY)
Believe it or not, another problem is that the KJV mistranslates this particular verse. And don’t believe it or do, so does the NIV. But of course! 😉
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces[a] of this world rather than on Christ. (NIV)
Which is why I always have recourse to Young’s Literal Translation for times like this when it matters exactly what the Bible says.
See that no one shall be carrying you away as spoil through the philosophy and vain deceit, according to the deliverance of men, according to the rudiments of the world, and not according to Christ (YLT)
It’s clear that “spoiled” is a KJV mistranslation of “spoil”. Yet at least the NIV has the good grace to provide a footnote (see above) to the effect that it has construed “the basic principles” (rudiments) as “the elemental spiritual forces” of this world.
But here’s the fatal flaw with Tim’s advice—be sure to get your doctrine from the Bible, not the traditions of man!—which renders it useless. Which Bible?
Tim’s telling me to be sure to get my doctrine from the Bible, but which one? As we all know, Christians (e.g., Protestants vs. Catholics and Orthodox Christians) can’t even agree on which books belong in the Bible, let alone which translations of the canonical books are themselves canonical.
Which Bible? Tim will, of course, answer the Authorized King James Version of 1611. Which is a fair answer to a fair question. But if I accept this answer, one thing’s for sure. I’m now getting my doctrine from the traditions of man, and from the traditions of one man in particular, viz., my co-blogger Tim Wikiriwhi! And not necessarily from either the true Bible (if, indeed, there even is such a thing) or Christ.
It comes down to this. When all is said and done, we must decide—each of us individually must decide—in what and/or in whom to trust.
I trust in Jesus, the Son of God, whom I know from the first-hand accounts of his ministry by the original gospel authors, from his work in the lives of my brothers and sisters in Christ, from his work in my own life, and from personal encounter.
I trust in the deliverances of my own God-given moral compass when (not often, just occasionally) they conflict with what’s in the Bible.
So the Bible. What’s it good for?
Why, it’s profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works, of course! 🙂
Anyone who’s spent any time in serious study of the Bible (or even someone who’s only delved into it intermittently) will have discovered, for themselves, apparent contradictions, of which there are very, very many.
Just for example, Ezekiel 33:11 (and Ezekiel 18:32) and Psalm 37:13 seem rather at odds.
Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’ (NIV)
but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming. (NIV)
How should a Christian respond to such apparent contradictions? It’s not easy maintaining contradictions. Maintaining a contradiction is surely the very essence of cognitive dissonance, and cognitive dissonance is something we all naturally seek to minimise.
Of particular concern are the apparent contradictions in Bible verses about salvation. Is justification through good works or by faith alone? Enquiring minds want to know.
The inerrantist response is to hold that the Bible is inerrant. On the premiss (due to Douglas Stauffer) that
God will preserve His word, and not allow it to pass away.
And then try to explain away the apparent contradictions. All of them. One attempt to do this (with particular emphasis on what the Bible says about salvation) is the doctrine of Dispensationalism due to John Nelson Darby.
Now, I can see that the above premiss has merit and that Dispensationalism is, in some sense, a reasonable response to the apparent contradictions in the Bible.
But doesn’t God operate according to the KISS principle?
“Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” (NIV)
Dispensationalism is complicated. Doesn’t God’s fundamental message have to be intelligible to little children and simpletons? Because Dispensationalism isn’t.
The errantist response is to hold that the Bible is not inerrant. To concede that it’s full of contradictions, some of which cannot be adequately explained away. But that, nonetheless
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (KJV)
and that Jesus’s fundamental message remains intact, which it does.
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (KJV)
My reason for writing this post is my concern that those who hold that the Bible is inerrant are fooling themselves. In a bad way. Notwithstanding that Douglas Stauffer (already quoted above) tells us that
Satan has reveled in creating doubt concerning the authority of the words of God.
the simple fact is that there is doubt concerning the authority of scripture as it has been handed down to us. Not to acknowledge and to express doubt such as this is to deceive oneself and maybe others too. It’s my considered opinion that those who persist in maintaining that the Bible is inerrant are involved in more convolutions and contortions than David Bain trying to explain his movements on the morning of 20 June 1994, more turns than a sluggard on his bed, more preposterous suspensions of disbelief than an atheist proclaiming that this blog post is an anticipated result of the Big Bang. They’re playing the exegetical version of Twister—the game that ties you up in knots.
Now I am going to say some things that will upset some folk… yet It must be said… It keeps getting swept under the carpet… so that the party can carry on.
Though an indisputable Icon of Grunge, Scott was a tragically lost soul…. a Train wreak of a person.
Scott was the same age as me… 48.
His music is an essential part of the soundtrack of my life, yet his death… like so many others is a testament to the fact that he was a follower of unbelievably disastrous values, and yet sadly millions of other lost souls worship these Musical loose wheels… and dance their way down the road to destruction.
Scott Weiland’s tragic story is but one track on a stuck record that keeps repeating…
We could talk about Alice in Chains frontman Layne Stanley, or the miserable fate of Kurt Corbain.> April 5 Sux.
Next week I’ll be going to AC DC… yet sadly Bon Scott wont be singing… he’s on that Highway to hell.
It does not have to end like this!!!!
On a much more positive note… Many Rockers survive long enough to wake up from their Drunken stupor and see the light.
Alice Cooper… Alice Cooper Goes to Hell. Nek Minnit!
I know what I’m talking about because *I was a lost soul on that road myself*
Read my story > Jimi vs Jesus.
Wake up my friends!
Love music by all means, yet you will not discover the road that leads to life until you free yourselves from your foolish prejudices which keep your minds closed to the truth.
Beware that love of the Darkness… you think you are free… when you are in fact slaves.
What about Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix,John Bonham, Keith Moon,Brian Jones, or Amy Winehouse?
Rehab could not save her.
The list is endless.
How long will Miley Cyrus last?
Scott Weiland LA 1994.
Many of you now are parents… how can you raise your kids yet leave them without direction… without hope?
You cast them out into open waters without a compass.
It does not have to be that way.
Seek and ye shall find!
Dont be fools unto the end.
Teach your Kids the lessons of the Survivors!
Those great and fortunate souls who realised in time that even being among the God’s of Rock is nothing but death without Jesus Christ.
The Bible is wonderfully true to those who learn the Truth in time…. terribly true who learn it too late.
It is my hearts desire to help anyone who seeks answers to their questions… to their perceived critisisms of the Bible, yet only a truly open mind and heart is fit to receive the truth.
Closed minds and hard hearts are beyond reach.
To anyone disturbed by the carnage of Rock and Roll, and it’s effects on their youths… Seek!
“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”.
Jesus Christ. John 8vs 32.
End note: Of course raising your children with biblical faith does not guarantee they wont wander off out into the world… yet even so they will have that lighthouse back in the distance…
They may have to learn what the lost world is like the hard way… yet like Blackie Lawless… they can return home.
Tim Wikiriwhi
Music lover.
Christian.
Scott Weiland’s ex-wife has penned a candid, poignant essay on the deceased Stone Temple Pilots singer on behalf of his two children
“December 3rd, 2015 is not the day Scott Weiland died. It is the official day the public will use to mourn him, and it was the last day he could be propped up in front of a microphone for the financial benefit or enjoyment of others. The outpouring of condolences and prayers offered to our children, Noah and Lucy, has been overwhelming, appreciated and even comforting. But the truth is, like so many other kids, they lost their father years ago. What they truly lost on December 3rd was hope.”
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/scott-weiland-s-family-dont-glorify-this-tragedy-20151207#ixzz3tnAG1lNh
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
I belong to a closed Dispensationalist Facebook page, and a question has arisen which I think is worth discussion.
It’s interesting for me on many different levels, esp because though I am an Idealist whom despises compromise in matters of Religion, I am not so hard as to not consider expedience under certain conditions.
Here is the moot…
“Just to get a feel from all the members in here and for personal enrichment. What are your thoughts on women teaching over men in church? Whether it be women pastors, women sunday school teachers with men in the class etc..
On a scale of 1-10. 1 being you would never fellowship with someone who holds to believes women should have authority over men. 10 being we have women in teaching/pastoral roles over men in our church.
I know this is topic often brings about much heated debate, it is not my intention to do so, I simply for my personal knowledge would like to know the temperature of fellow dispensationsalists. Thanks”.
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My answer follows… I would be interested in hearing what my contemporaries have to say on this matter.
I expect the Bible ‘hackers’, feminists, and Antichrists to have a field day!??
Tim says….
In New Zealand before the arrival of the Pakeha, Maori society was both a Class society, and largely Patriarchal… many customs woman had to take a back seat, yet We have a place on the Coast called ‘Whakatane’.
It got it’s name from an incident in which a group of Maori had landed in their Whaka (canoe) and the Men had Gone inland… either hunting or on a war party… and the Canoe started to be swept out to sea.
In Maori culture it was forbidden for woman to paddle, yet in this situation one brave Wahine (woman) cried out “Today I become as a Man! (Tane)” and she rushed out and rescued the canoe.
I think there is something to be learned here.
*When there are no *Real Men* to lead the Church… what can a godly woman do, but step forward ‘and become as a man?
I am carnal, and though I may have wisdom in the word…. I am unfit to lead a congregation… so I do not expect my words to hold any authority… and I submit to you that a Righteous Woman would be *more fit* to lead than I…. yet this situation is not ideal… but a matter of expedience.
Also I would liken this rule to Laws against working on the Sabbath.
‘Will not you rescue your Bullock from the ditch on a Saturday?
Laws are made for Man… not man… for the Laws.
So while in principle I would suggest the correct answer should be about a 3 (after all we always need to have some grace)…. in reality… I think I will give this a 5… esp due to the sorry state of the church… I have no doubt there are woman who are superior to men and that by God’s grace they ought to do what their conscience dictates.
Tim Wikiriwhi.
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