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Vain Imaginations: Jordan Peterson on How Psychedelic Experiences Could’ve Shaped Religion

I have watched a fair chunk of both Rogan and Peterson materials… and have enjoyed a great portion of it all. I believe they both make very valuable and insightful contributions in the realm of thought…yet I am not a sycophant. I give praise when I believe praise is due, yet I will also call out BS when I see it.

Please watch the video below.

Man has been defined as ‘The worshipping Animal’.
The title of this video is misleading in that the question is only relevant if it pertains to Moses and the Bible rather than a generalised ‘Origin of the Religious sense in humanity’ because we have solid evidence that some Pagan religions are born of or at least make use of psychedelics as mystical practices.
But should a person then believe this is a sound explanation for what is written in the bible?
That is the question I want to address… the rest is moot IMO because it is non-contentious.
Drug taking is a fact of human history.

I don’t buy this sort of ‘Rationalist’ speculation of apostate Jewish scholars who deny their own faith (Rogan’s opening statement was that some Rabbis had claimed Moses was trippin).

I would never deny these are questions worth discussing… they clearly are worth it… I don’t have a problem with the questions… I just find Rogan and Peterson’s conclusions… or lack thereof disappointing.
I guess these guys are still wandering in the wilderness.


Picture from here.

It is true that many people have equated psychedelic’s trips to having a religious experience complete with meeting spirit beings.

Indisputably some Psychonauts looking for meaning in life believe they have ‘found’ something real in the psychedelic experience that transcends this material universe (consciousness itself is fundamentally transcendental) . Scientists and psychologists are beginning to appreciate that going on a trip can even bring peace of mind to the terminally ill… alleviating some from the fear of death.
They experience an opening door to greater realities.
Joe Rogan himself talks a lot about this.
In my youth I experienced this very thing too.
I was already a Christian and yet magic mushrooms were mind expanding.
Modern science is today catching up to the many beneficial and therapeutic qualities of Psilocybin.
Contrary to long held phobias and prejudices Magic Mushrooms can be good for the brain and the spirit.

Caveat: Beware! Psilocybin Magic mushroom are currently illegal in New Zealand, and if you ingest a poisonous look-alike that could be a fatal mistake.
Prohibition Sux!
One day this will change, and as is the case now in Canada, you will be able to buy safe tripping mushroom’s from the shop.

I recently had a surprising conversation with a old friend who had always been hard of heart when it came to discussion of religion, yet had recently had what she described as a religious experience from a psychedelic trip.
This experience completely shifted her opinion about transcendent reality.
Such experiences may help people to escape the box of materialism yet it is still a long journey to the way, the truth, and the life.
I am hoping my now more open minded friend will look further afield contemplate the bigger questions for which the Bible alone has the Truth.
Her spiritual pilgrimage has only just begun.
I pray God sends her knowledgeable servants to help guide her to the truth.
We all must see the light of truth to be saved. It is one thing for me to know this (I’m alright Jack!), the problem I have is that most of the people I care about are closed off to the possibility that they are lost sinners who need Christ.
Still I must try to reach anyone who is not hard of heart.

Back to Rogan and Peterson. What grinds my gears about these two guys in particular is despite being well aware of a massive corpus of piece-meal facts that are scattered across a broad spectrum of subjects guys like Rogan and Peterson fail to think holistically and refuse to draw the most obvious conclusion about ‘the religion’ of the Bible… from a totality of what is known… that it is based upon *Real events*…. *Empirical facts*.’That is the most obvious conclusion that best fits all the hard corroborating evidence.
Instead they choose to be vain in their imaginations and flog their favorite hobby horses. Rogan likes to attribute stuff to tripping. and Peterson enjoys fabricating overly sophisticated psychological bents that make the great men of the past look like Psyche patients.
This is a well understood penchant of ‘specialists’… their tunnel vision that can only interpret reality through their narrow lens of ‘training’… exposing their bents.
Gullible people mistake their own wild ‘rationalisations’ as being valid excuses for doubting the veracity of the Bible when in reality they are feeble and fail to explain the known facts.


Moses and the Burning Bush from here.

Doctor heal thyself!
I assert the simple truth is that the great famous men of the Bible… Moses, etc had real experiences with God Almighty. Ie The Bible is literally true.
On a psychological level we can appreciate why human beings don’t want to face the simple truth…. because it would call an end to their pet delusions… an existential crisis….
But if you admit to yourself the bible speaks of real events … the moral implications will demand you change you whole outlook on life… and call you to prostrate yourself before the Almighty.
And above all things mans pride and his desire to be his own God prevents him from acknowledging his subjection to the Divine Authority.
What is appealing to people like Rogan about the psychedelic experience is that he can make it mean whatever he wants to believe.
Sinful lost human beings are alien to the truth. They are opposed to it. many will choose to believe almost anything rather than the truth. They cannot bear it.
In this way Human beings are the children of the Devil. This is not freedom but slavery to a lie. This will damn your soul.
As a Christin it is my duty to both God and my fellow man to witness for the Gospel.
Be honest to yourself. Believe the scriptures. The truth will make you free. Look to the Cross of Christ and his resurrection… there our salvation is found… for free.

Space in this post has not allowed me to lay out all the evidence that ought to compel reasonable people into accepting the historical validity of the scriptures.
Please do not be too disappointed about this short fall.
I am aware of it, yet anyone who thinks my failure to provide such a detailed exposition makes my contention a hollow claim is not a reasonable person.
The subject is massive. and involves virtually every branch of knowledge… and this is my main contention against the proposition Rogan and Peterson are making in the featured video. It is naïve.

I will provide links to where an investigation of the facts can be started….

IMO the greatest hurdle for an entrenched Atheist materialist that prevents them from being able to grasp the validity of the Bible is their *Ideological Blindness*… an intellectual incapacity to be able to contemplate for even a moment that Spiritual realities might really exist… and that the Biblical miracles actually happened.
I am not seeking to belittle anyone… I’m pointing out the massive paradigm shift required to be able to honestly consider the alternative view.
I know this from my own prior atheist experience. I know how the Materialist mindset is utterly consumed by weak rationalisations that are fabricated to maintain the Atheist cognitive dissonance.
It is an addictive habit of the mind that most atheists mistake for intelligence and reason.
It is folly!
Materialism is founded upon the archaic and childish delusions of Scientism… a belief that empirical science can (and does)explain everything.
This is an untenable position in 2023.

“Seek and ye shall find.”
The first step to seeking the light must be an opening of the mind.

A large portion of my work published on Eternal Vigilance Blog is laying out the case for Christianity and Biblical faith. I am not a great writer, yet the hundreds of posts I have done on a broad spectrum of issues form my testimony as to why I believe the Bible is true. Thus I point to them as an archive of evidence to support my claims I am making today. Anyone with a seeking heart might do worse than to spend some time following links I post below.

A final word…
When I dabbled in psychedelics I never met any spirit beings, yet as I said above I was a wayward Christian.
I wonder if that kept them at bay?
I do not encourage anyone to take drugs, and posit the long held warning that Christians have historically associated ‘Phamikea’ with Sorcery and Witchcraft… which is understandable given the Pagan usage of psychedelics.
The Bible instead promotes the Sober mind.
And if the assertions of the Christians are correct in these matters, the spirit beings encountered while tripping could be dangerous Demons pretending to be Angels of light… and I suspect that is the case.

Before I was a Christian, in my late Teens I did have an experience… It is called ‘Entity Attack syndrome’… historically called Incubus/ Succubus encounter, yet modern rationalists call it ‘Sleep paralysis’ … my account of that can be found here…

THE GREEN MANALISHI.

Tim Wikiriwhi.
Christian Libertarian.

More from Tim….

THE GOSPEL OF GOD’S GRACE.

Hell is for the Self Righteous, Heaven is for Sinners.

Do you believe you have the Perfect Word of God? Theism vs Humanistic Rationalism. Seeing The Light! My Testimony.

THE RUSTY CAGE: SCIENTISM.

A High Calling.

Christ’s work of Salvation on the Cross… The Great Equaliser.

The Rock of Divine Revelation.

The hope which is In Christ. Terrible grief shall be turned into great joy!

Jimi vs Jesus.

Car Crash.

NZ Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon calls the Maori Party Racist. The Platform.

1. “…It is a known fact Maori genetic make up is stronger than others…”
Maori Party Website’

2. Act Party Leader lodges a complaint with the Race Relations Commissioner, claiming the above statement is racist.

3. ” We believe it is racist… because if any other group of people said that they would be labeled racist so we have got to be even handed…”
Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon on ‘The Platform’

Oh Boy! Great Leader will not be amused!
This is not how ‘that game’ is supposed to be played… with an unbiased umpire!

Great work by Sean Plunket on ‘The Platform.
Via straight talk he got the truth out of the New Zealand Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon.
Though I have never been a Meng Foon supporter, good on him for having the stones to make that just call publicly … albeit reluctantly.
We all know why he has trepidation.
We all know why he did not prance out on his steed the moment he became aware of this blatant Racist statement… which is akin to the talk Adolf Hitler used to describe Germans as the superior race.
Sean correctly pointed out the double standard… the slowness to act… comparative to the situation if (for example) the Maori Party had lodged a complaint against the Act Party stating Pakeha Genes were ‘stronger’ than all other races.
Foon would have sallied forth pronto without any Hui with Seymour!
Well… better late than never.

I’m certain Sean would not have received the same honesty from Susan Devoy had she still been in office!
I’m pretty sure Sean would have received a double standard tirade about the oppression of Maori…. blar blar blar… with a refusal to admit the patent simple truth.
I say this because that is how the entire Apartheid system has been carried on for decades…. blatant racist politics… being denied as being racism.

This Woke game is like monkeys flinging poo at each other.
As an advocate of Free speech I certainly don’t endorse the idea that people should be forced to censor their own opinions. In fact I like to know what political parties really think, and yet I can’t help but see Seymour’s complaint to the Race Relations Commissioner as being some well earned UTU upon the Maori Party who complain about what other people say… all the ding dong day!
The reality is people are entitled to hold and express their own opinions on such matters.
The important thing is that the Law and government are impartial.
David Seymour claims to be a free Speech advocate too… I guess he will use the engines of censorship when it suits his purposes to do so.
Mud fight!
Time to grab a bag of Popcorn!

Ridiculous as all this is… the steaks could not be higher. The whole future of our nation is on the table.
That is what makes what Sean has achieved here a significant blow for truth.

It was a political error for the Maori party not to remove that statement as it has given the Anti-separatist/ pro equality movement traction against them… yet I guess they have never been perturbed about defending their indefensible racism having the advantage that the entire Government and media are geared to see the world through a preferential lens.


Great Leader Comrade Jacinda Ardern

Foons admission is unprecedented moment that up till now his predecessors in office have squirmed like worms to avoid.
The Truth is not Politically correct… not wanted.
Meng Foon will come under extreme pressure not to be so fact based in the future.
We must remember that he is an Ardern supporter and will not be comfortable finding himself at variance with the Great Leader.
We have seen how the Labour party deals with minions who buck against Party dictates.


Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon.

Now is it too much for me to hope that instead of opening a pent up floodgate of guile and spleen in Foon’s face that Freedom advocates will instead use this opportunity to advance their calls for an end to Racial separatism with moderated reason?
Any wild outbursts tend to work in favour of the racist Maori Party because then they can play the victim game… and say their political adversaries are motivated by hate.
It is a shame that there are portions of the Equality movement who allow their well founded bitterness at Treaty separatism to reduce them to foaming raving madmen.
It would be absolutely foolish at this time for Foon to not only suffer censure from the Racists for being truthful, but also from us as well!
That would only serve to make him doubly regretful for his honesty.
I am not suggesting no righteous indignation be expressed, but that it be tempered with reason for the purpose of persuasion… not simply venting.

If we treat him with some respect, and posit our arguments in calm simple facts, this will do far more to support his conviction that he has made a just and rightful judgement on this thorny matter, and encourage him to maintain his resolve to remaining a fair judge in the face of heavy pressure to capitulate to the racist agenda.

I must be forthright.
Truth, Reason and justice are our allies.


Maori Party.

Why have New Zealanders tolerated the Political charlatans who foist a Racist system upon us?
Mostly because they have been deceived into thinking opposing the separatist agenda is to support the Bogyman of ‘White colonialist oppression’.
Talk about led down the garden path!
When will we put an end to this corruption?
Understand that Politicians like Comrade Ardern are working like Demons to destroy our democracy and elevate a single race above everyone else… and grant them power and wealth far above everyone else… a Bona fide legally entrenched Racial Elite!
Creating a full blown two tier Apartheid state!
And they want to make it illegal to speak out against this!
They say to defend racial equality before the law is hateful!
This is what ‘hate speech laws’ are all about… not defending oppressed minorities, but outlawing political dissent against the State.
Maori are not an oppressed people.
Come on New Zealanders!
Snap out of your Stupor!
Reclaim New Zealand for Justice and equality before the Law!
Throw out all Political parties who promote Racial separatism!
In Freedom and equality We Maori can still exist…. just like everyone else!

Tim Wikiriwhi.
Christian Libertarian.

More from Tim…

I ENDORSE CARL BROMLEY’S BID FOR CHRISTCHURCH CITY COUNCIL. CROSS THE RUBICON’S COMMENTARY ON CARL’S MAIDEN CAMPAIGN SPEECH.

ARDERN GOVERNMENT WILL USE ‘HISTORY CURRICULUM’ TO INDOCTRINATE OUR CHILDREN WITH RACIST FALSEHOODS. TIM WIKIRIWHI’S SUBMISSION FOR ‘ AOTEAROA NEW ZEALAND’S HISTORIES IN THE NEW ZEALAND CURRICULUM ‘.

TROJAN HORSE: THE UN SEPARATIST DECLARATION OF INDIGENOUS RIGHTS.

Tim Wikiriwhi’s Submission to the New Zealand Government’s Constitutional Review. 2013

Alcohol, Drugs, Nanny State, and the Plight of the Maori People.

New Zealand’s Hopeless Election Choices… The Selling out of New Zealand to BrownMail. RMA 2017
The Verdict is in… as predicted… ‘Closing the Gaps’ Socialism has been a disaster for Maori and New Zealand as a whole.

The Wanganui River and the incredulous incantations of the Neo-Tohungas…

My speech for the 1Law4all party 2014 AGM. Tim Wikiriwhi. 17 June. Hamilton

The New Zealand War of the 1860s was not a ‘Land war’… It was a Sovereignty War.

Mt Everest is for Wimps! Lets Conquer Apartheid Government in New Zealand! A strategy.

Looking Forward, not Backwards: Dynamic Culture vs Stagnation. Why British Colonisation was good for Maori.

The Shame of Maori Radicalism. Hate and Violence.

Maori Renaissance… *EPIC FAIL!*

Low Lives in High Places. Water and John Key’s Racist Alliance

The Great Waitangi Swindle.

Trojan Horse: The UN Separatist Declaration of Indigenous Rights.

Universal Pride in Washington, Separatist Shame in Wellington.
Lost Plot. World Press Freedom Day.

Spiel on brain washing, and socialist engines of confomity. State education.

The Great Waitangi Debate. 2010

Where Haters come from.

When you discover you got published when you didn’t know….. Tim Wikiriwhi: Delusions of politiicans

Please Read here

Hamilton News….

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/waikato-news/news/tim-wikiriwhi-delusions-of-politiicans/ZMPZZZ4RZQRZCBGNQUGEBOGLSM/

WAIKATO NEWS
Tim Wikiriwhi: Delusions of politiicans
11 Jun, 2012 07:00 AM
3 minutes to read

Hamilton News
By Tim Wikiriwhi, Libertarian Independent

It is interesting how reality has a way of exposing Ignorance and folly, and bring unpopular truths into the light.

It is even more interesting to watch the various ways the ‘tyrants’ and ‘sheeple’ respond.

Collectivist communism bankrupted the Soviet Union, which is a reality not wasted upon the Chinese communists, who responded by modifying their economy to align more closely with Western socialist democracies which have a modicum of free enterprise, and private property, yet in reality is not ‘free’ at all, but heavily regulated, and taxed by a large, powerful, and meddlesome state.

Yet the Chinese now have discovered they have not prevented the collapse of their regime, but merely postponed it by a few decades, as the economic model they assimilated from the West is likewise fatally flawed.

The West now reels under the teachings of pain reality that their model of socialism is also ‘unsustainable’ … it just takes a little longer to reach it’s inevitable end.

This fact is proven by the massive debt crisis which socialist democracies now face, having been driven into the ground by elected big spending, anti-freedom, anti-capitalists.

Big spending,and micro management of society holds true across the board, and has now forced a heavily indebted Hamilton City council into ‘austerity mode’

The Council is now downsizing and selling off assets:

Indoor Rec Centre… No funds

Municipal Pools… closed.

Pensioner Flats… for sale

YMCA… For Sale.

Ibis/Novotel… For Sale.

Council Service… $6M cut

(Source: Waikato Times)

The current crisis is exactly as I predicted.

I have spent the last decade campaigning for council, warning the people of Hamilton that bankruptcy and pain was approaching like a juggernaut.

During elections I told the then-Mayoral-candidate Julie Hardacre that she would have to renege on all her big ideas and campaign promises, yet this did not deter her from continuing to pedal her ‘popular’ delusions, and thus she was elected.

Mrs Hardacres fantasies received full media support, while my economic and political truths were marginalized, and treated as ‘whack’.

I was left out of the political debates, thus many voters were left in the dark about the real state of affairs faced by the Hamilton City Council and the necessary alternative direction which I represented.

Most voters were not aware of the choice that I represented as a candidate.

Well, time is up and the apocalypse has arrived: many of my unpopular policies are now being forced upon the council.

The travesty is that they are now being implemented by the charlatans who got elected by promising to spend more, not less.

It is a real pity that Hamiltonians did not heed my warnings as I could have implemented a systematic program of reform when things were not so dire and thereby would have been able to get better returns on asset sales, during a better economic climate unlike the ‘fire sale’ that we must now endure.

I would also love to see a review of all the campaign promises of the current bunch in council, putting to them the hard questions of how they expected to fulfill their pledges when there was no money to do so?

Did they make their promises simply to fool the voters and get elected?

Thus like all socialist democracies Hamilton wallows in debt.

Socialist big government does not work.

Tim Wikiriwhi

Libertarian Independent.

Hamilton West.