FEDS INDICT NEVADA RANCHER CLIVEN BUNDY
Rancher faces 42 years in prison and up to $1.5 million in fines
The complaint claims the rancher spearheaded a conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, in addition to five other charges: Assault on a Federal Law Enforcement Officer; Use and Carry of a Firearm In Relation to a Crime of Violence; Obstruction of the Administration of Justice; Interference with Commerce by Extortion; and, Aiding and Abetting.
From the indictment, discussing the 2014 “Bundy standoff” in Bunkerville:
“The 200 Followers in the wash included a significant number brandishing or raising their assault rifles in front of the officers. Some of these gunmen took tactically superior positions on high ground, while others moved in and out of the crowd, masking their movements behind other unarmed Followers. The most immediate threat to the officers came from the bridges where gunmen took sniper positions behind concrete barriers, their assault rifles aimed directly at the officers below.”
“To achieve his objectives,” the complaint reads, “BUNDY and his co-conspirators recruited, organized and led a force of hundreds of people to threaten and use force and violence to prevent the law enforcement officers from discharging their duties and to coerce their consent to abandon the cattle that were, pursuant to court order, lawfully in their care and custody and which they were duty bound to protect.”
The indictment goes on to say officers “believed they were going to be shot and killed,” suggesting some of the people who stood by Bundy during the epic standoff could be charged as well.”
In response I repost below my blog …. Bundy Cowboys and Militia Stand on the highest legal ground… Why the 2nd Amendment was enshrined.
Yet before leaving you to that, I must raise my grievous concern about the absolutely *Zombie like* ignorance…. the absolute Racist bigotry against these Patriots simply because they are White… the absolute slavish disdain that is heaped upon them for daring to challenge the tyranny that the American government has become in direct violation of the Constitution and founding principles of the nation!
And most of these vile and slavish support that Begs the government to murder and imprison these Dissidents actually comes from the ‘Occupy’ and ‘Black lives matter’ groups!!!!
This Rank hypocrisy bodes ill for America as it appears that Obama has plenty of support for his tyrannical ambitions for a population that Laps up the official line…esp the Agenda to label defenders of the Second amendment as ‘Hateful Extremists’…. Religious fanatics…. Domestic terrorists.
This is a repeat of the Waco massacre type Government Crushing dissent.
It is Tienanmen square.
America ought to be rising up against the crushing of these Righteous and Patriotic standing on the Constitution… yet instead… like the mob that chose Barabbas over Christ… they cry ‘Crucify them’.
And Obama will wash his hands… and Satan laughing…. spreads his wings.
America… which has become Sickly and Pox ridden… will finally be dead.
The principles of Liberty which stand between Mankind and the Antichrist will be extinguished… and the rounding up of outspoken critics and Libertarian minded dissenters will become routine.
Tim Wikiriwhi
Christian Libertarian.
New Zealand.
Last week’s standoff between Southern Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management “is not over,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told a gathering of students, professors and political candidates Monday at the University of Nevada, Reno.>>>Here<<<
“We can’t have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it,” he said, reiterating the fact that “it’s not over.”
Read more Here
Yet is The Law really on Reid’s side …. or the Bundy’s?
If what has been said about Reids vested interest in pushing the Ranchers out of Nevada is true, then it may surprise many sheeple to hear that the Armed Ranchers and Militia *acted Lawfully* in taking up arms and resisting the unjust and tyrannical demands of the Bureau of Land Management, and getting the illegally confiscated Bundy cattle back.
They were claiming their Second amendment Rights… which trumps any and all legislations and dictates which would have the Bundy’s submit to the will of the BLM.
This sort of situation is exactly why the Founding Fathers enshrined the second amendment.
It is the Lawful right to Bear arms in self defence against corrupt and tyrannical government.
Milita sniper covers the Bundy cowboys as they confront the BLM and demand they Stand down and release the cattle.
Of course this sort of armed resistance is going to piss off the Bastards in Power Big time, and there is a very real threat that everyone involved in the resistance could be murdered by the state or imprisoned… unless the People of America Rally and stand behind these Brave freedom fighters…
Their Fate will be determined by whether or not the Tyrannical powers *Fear the wrath of the People*… or instead convince themselves that they can crush this ‘rebellion’ with little fear of an escalation into full blown Revolution.
Reid’s comments clearly indicate this crisis is not over by a long shot and there is every reason to Fear ‘Waco type’ repercussions.
It is therefore imperative that Patriots and militia about the US step up now and voice their solidarity and fraternity with the Bundy resistance…. and that Bloggers/ Social network Fans around the Globe make it clear that we are all watching… and in the know…. so that the Power mongers in Washington appreciate they cant hide the truth.
May The Good Lord Be with the Righteous Defenders of Liberty and Justice.
Tim Wikiriwhi
Christian Libertarian
New Zealand.
Update: 22-4-14.
As predicted the Bundy’s, and all their supporters, Vets, and Patriots have been labelled “DOMESTIC TERRORISTS” By Senator Reed!
Top secret American Anti-domestic terrorist squads have Zero presence on the Internet.
Re: Article concerning US government Black opps and Jackboots in Burns Oregon. (Atricle below)
Hello from New Zealand, Watching events over there with concern, and blogging it .
Very good observations regarding the Black opps going on, and I think this is a cIear indication that the Obama administration/ Powers that be are more concerned with maintaining power in the face of what the whole world knows is a potential Civil war/ revolution to overthrow a corrupt government that has bankrupted and enslaved America,than with any external terrorist threats.
They are acutely aware that *it is Americans* who are still Patriotic to the founding principles of your nation that are Vigilant enough to see what the Tyrants are up to… and vocal enough to be raising the alarm… and now are bold enough to take a stand… who are now the greatest threat… not to Americans… but to *the US Government government which has become absolutely corrupt* and in violation of the Constitution on virtually every count.
*This puts the law on the side of the Protesters and Outlaws the tyrannical system.
So I think it is obvious that the build up there is not about grabbing farms and minerals at all… but about *The Big Picture*…. suppressing this protest and murder from becoming the spark of Revolution.
And these ‘Non-descript’ Military people will be Specially picked *Americans* who have been trained to have no compunction about shooting fellow Americans… as they did to Lavoy… and they will think nothing to covering their evils with lies and subversion… as they did with planting a 9mm on Lavoy.
These are CIA type tactics.
It has nothing to do with the safety of the Opps themselves.
They have no identifications on their uniforms to make it harder for the Government to be exposed and brought to account for their crimes, and so they can tell lies about *who is doing the killing*… and about the righteousness of those they are attacking.
Unless the people of America hold peaceful mass rallies all across the country… the cause will be lost… and the greatness of American Liberty will be utterly crushed.
The Main stream media are all in cahoots.
So it will be upto the *The true free-press*… the bloggers and the people to get the message out there Viral-ly… and to rally the people.
You can see why The Government is hell bent on controlling the internet.
Now even though I live on the other side of the planet, I am still not out of reach of the US government, as was proven by the Illegal spying of the New Zealand GCSB and Raid of Mega Upload mogul Kim Dot com.
An even with clearly shows the depth of Collusion between the New Zealand government and the US.
Of course New Zealand is part of the ‘Five eyes’ Global spy network, and this is no doubt a relationship based upon “You scratch our back… and we will scratch yours”.
This being so it is very probable that Kiwi bloggers like myself can expect to fall into the cross hairs of our GCSB.
This is how the Collusion between countries hopes to exercise *Global controls* and crush dissent that crosses national boundaries.
And the GCSB have already proven they will break the law against them spying on New Zealand citizens and permanent residents.
Our Prime minister John Key has been caught lying about these things, including the mass surveillance of New Zealanders, etc… always repairing to ‘Memory blocks’ when he is found out.
So it is not without personal risk that I dare to hold up the touch for American patriots.
I could easily find myself in trouble here in New Zealand.
My Home bugged, my Blogging activities interfered with… or worse.
Yet Evil prevails when good men do nothing… and so I will continue to Speak up for you Good American patriots as long as I can… You Righteous Liberty and Justice loving hard working folk whom are being labeled ‘Domestic terrorists’… and are now feeling the Boots of Tyranny.
God bless your righteous stand.
God save America… and Western civilisation.
Tim Wikiriwhi.
Christian Libertarian.
Blogger
New Zealand
About two years the Nation watched as Cliven Bundy stood in opposition against an unjust seizure of his ranch and grazing rights by the BLM. The event grew as patriotic Americans responded to his aid. The growing protest was ultimately successful in forcing the BLM to turn tail and retreat in face of the growing support that they could no longer control. Fast forward now to January 2, 2016 and we have a similar situation with the BLM is small town out west called Burns, Oregon. Since the start of this protest, the Main Stream Media (MSM) has been putting forth articles and news reports using such adjectives as “armed militants”, “right wing racists”, “terrorists” or “armed thugs”. Every story I read or listened to was basically the same, always one sided. I follow the belief that there are 3 sides to every story; you could call it her side, his side and the Truth. So when only one side is ever told, it is safe to assume that there is an agenda afoot. An agenda the MSM never speaks about.
So in my quest to get to the Truth, I decided to take an eight day vacation from my full time job to travel 3,000 miles via plane and car to that small town out west call Burns. What you are about to read is exactly what I witnessed and learned from my westward trip. I hope that this article, and those to follow, will help you see through the smokescreen of lies the media, at the bequest of our federal government , have been and are still telling us as the means to controlling the narrative.
Contrary to the MSM stories one finds on the situation in Burns Oregon, the real terrorist in Burns Oregon are not the framer, ranchers or loggers, nor are they the patriotic first responders. The farmer, ranchers and loggers are salt of the earth people, they are hardworking folks who bust their butts every day to earn a living as many of us do on a daily basis. The Patriotic first responders, men and women who have left behind their lives, families, friends and jobs in order to come to Burns to bring attention to the illegal land grabs and the usurpation of our Constitution. These people present no threat to the people of Burns as evidenced by the fact that they frequent the local stores, shops, restaurants and bars without any issues.
At first glance, it is easy to accept the media story that Sheriff David Ward invited the FBI to take over local control of the situation to help protect the citizens of Burns Oregon from a band of “armed occupiers”. But that is for another article. So let’s take a closer look at several key issues that most may not be seeing.
In past decades whenever there was a civil protest it was customary for the local police and maybe the use of the state police to control and insure that the protest remains peaceful. During the protests of the late 60’s when demonstration began turning violent, State’s at the request of their Governors started to call in the National Guard to assist the police in maintaining order and protecting the public.
The question to ask is why didn’t Oregon Governor, Kate Brown, in accordance with Title 32 of the United States Code, call for the Oregon National Guard to assist in any local police action in response to the “armed occupiers” at the Malheur Refuge. Could it be that Gov. Kate Brown was appointed to her position, not elected by the People of her State, as was Sheriff David Ward of Harney County? Could it be that these appointed officials are beholden, not the good People of Oregon, but strictly to those entities that placed them in their position and power. Another unusual fact is that Special Agent Greg Bretzing in charge of the Malhuer Refuge Occupation happens to be linked to a Nation Security breach along with other fraud and corruption violation, as reported by The Shasta Lantern. Click here to view that article.
But, here in Burns the situation is much different and potentially much more ominous and deadly, as evidenced by the murder of LaVoy Finicum, by agencies yet to be fully disclosed. Authorities acting under the color of law but not in adherence to our laws, first closed down the Burns school system, even though the “armed occupiers”, of which only 4 are now remaining, are located 30 plus miles from downtown Burns in the middle of nowhere. WHY? Why was this necessary?
Road blocks, closures and check points are now common place in in and around Burns. Many of the local people have claimed that they are being randomly pulled over by “authorities” demanding they provide their ID’s for just driving down the street. There are locals being stopped at armed check points and forced out of their vehicle at gun point while their personal belongings and vehicle are thoroughly searched.
One rancher, Thom Davis, related his story in which he had a slowly dying horse on the range that needed to be humanly put down in order to relieve its suffering. The only trouble being that he was not that far from one of these check points and feared that should he have ended the horse’s suffering with a shot to the head, he too would have suffered the same fate. A fate that was later confirmed when he talked to the sheriff.
In another case the authorities actually took their vehicle a quarter mile beyond the check point and made them walk to get it.
Yet, in another case, Alexandra Puckett, described in a facebook post, the treatment and gun point threats from authorities that her husband and his mom encountered while trying only to feed their cows.
These actions taken by authorities have more in common with those of a Military Occupying Force in Iraq or Afghanistan they do with normal police actions here in American. The terrorization of Burns and throughout Harney County is, by no stretch of the imagination, being conducted by the ever increasing militarization of Federal and State agencies. With many reports of in conjunction with an illegal and unconstitutional buildup of a foreign mercenary army of PMC’s, an invading army if you will, acting under the color of law but not in adherence to our laws. Claim as they do that they are FBI, their tactics and use of vehicle void of any US military or alphabet agency marking or insignias, and lack of compliance with US Law, even when asked they present no documentation that they are indeed FBI. A video clip of this fact can be seen here
Additionally, other armored assets from distant counties are in Burns. I ask, Is all this really necessary to protect the public from 4 people still at the Refuge located 30 miles away, armed with a few rifles and hand guns, and already contained by authorities so they cannot escape from there. Or is something else going on here?
>>>Read on<<<
Update: The US Government is Crushing the Defenders of the Constitution!
Oregon standoff: Protesters may leave Thursday; Cliven Bundy arrested
"(CNN)The armed occupiers of a wildlife refuge in Oregon say they will turn themselves in on Thursday morning, hours after Cliven Bundy -- the father of protest leader Ammon Bundy -- was arrested by federal agents.
Oregon siege: What the armed group wants and why
A Facebook page for his ranch announced that Cliven Bundy, who came to the national spotlight in a fight with the federal Bureau of Land Management over grazing rights for his cattle in 2014, was heading to Oregon earlier Wednesday.
"It's time," the post said. "Cliven Bundy is headed to the Harney County Resource Center in Burns Oregon."
After landing in Portland, Oregon, Bundy was taken into federal custody, the FBI said.
It's not clear what he's been charged with. The FBI said authorities would make charging information available on Thursday morning.
Bundy's son, Ammon, was one of the leaders of the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. He was arrested last month.
The refuge's current occupiers said -- during a purported live stream of a conference call between protesters, activists and conservative Nevada lawmaker Michele Fiore -- they were prepared to leave Thursday morning...."
Must watch >>> here<<<
A message for you from Ammon Bundy Feb 6 2016 – PLEASE SHAREhttps://www.fundedjustice.com/en/projects/28054-Ammon-Bundy—Legal-Defense-Fund
Posted by Bundy Ranch on Saturday, February 6, 2016
^Watch/ listen to that Video
These are perilous times to be a Freedom loving dissenter apposed to Leviathan.
I fear the circling wolves who seek to silence the voices of Us whom dare to publicly challenge their oppressive Dominion.
How long will blogs like ‘Eternal vigilance’ be legal?
The Truth is that we must speak up now… or be forever silenced.
Why does a Kiwi Blogger care what happens in America?
Because I am a Kindred spirit…. the Heroic Spirit Of Christian Libertarianism, and the fact that we all live in a Global community.
The Evils that are at work in America are also at work all about the globe… including Australia, and New Zealand.
The same desire to absolutely Bury the principles of God-given inalienable rights and make the power of the State absolute…making all Dissent into a crime… the use of Brutality by the Police,being condoned by the courts, demanding submission and subjection… or else.
The Governments of the world seek to make out Liberty lovers as being terrorists.
Non-conformity is being labeled a mental illness in the universities.
And the most Bold defenders of Justice are being shot and incarcerated.
Pray for Ammon and those who support him.
Where are the Media with what is going on?
Evil walks.
It is Time to raise your Protest America!
Or be trodden underfoot.
Harley Davidson rider James Evans, who has been stopped a startling 21 times since buying his fatboy motorcycle in 2012, finally filmed his latest incident.
Queensland Police Media have responded to Jamie’s video saying riders and the public have “nothing to fear” from the increased police presence. Jamie is a member of the Misfits Social Motorcycle Club and wears a “Misfits” vest when he rides… “I’ve been advised by the police on many occasions to take the vest off, but I will always wear my vest. I’m proud of it,” he says.
…However, the harassment has now got to the stage where he says he can’t take his nine-year-old son for a ride. “How do you explain to a nine-year-old that police aren’t bad but I ride a bike so they see me as being bad. He’d lose any respect he has for the police,” he says. Despite the grilling by several police, Jamie filmed the whole incident and managed to keep his sense of humor…. Read more >here<
Reports from Australia are becoming more grim every day.
It is fast becoming a brutal Police state!
Under the pretense of breaking up Organised crime, Australian legislators have empowered the Police to go on a rampage.
Not only are they going to extreme lengths with regards to 1%er Motorcycle clubs, but they are perpetrating extreme prejudice towards All bikers, People with Tattoos, etc… and shutting down vibrant Entertainment and business districts.
“Love it or hate it, the verdict from certain quarters is in: Kings Cross is dead.
Gone are the bohemians, gone are the Yellow House artists, gone is the fringe, underground culture that, to some, gave the area its soul.”
With regards to the persecution of Bikers, Australian Draconianism and Thuggery has spawned opposition groups like Riders Against Discrimination
Read one of their disturbing FB posts… Australian Police are not just targeting Organised Crime syndicates… but ordinary Law abiding bikers….
Riders Against Discrimination – ‘RAD’
Page Liked · February 2 · Edited ·
We have today received a message along with some disturbing pictures from a social rider in Queensland.
We cannot share the pictures or mention the persons name on here as this may be going to court and we respect the request made by the victim of anonymity
At approx 7pm on Friday night this rider was pulled over for a ‘Random’ breath test and following this he was advised that there was to be a search of his bike and himself which he consented to. Nothing was found and so the male police officer asked him to remove his clothes at the side of the road for a strip search, he did not consent to this, aside from this not being a requirement for an RBT anyway last we heard, he was not comfortable as there was also a female officer present.
He then thought he should film anything further that might occur and when he advised the officer he was going to video any further interactions the officer attempted to take his phone away which he resisted and we have seen pictures of the injuries to his face and his arms which occurred during the struggle.
Once again if you think only club members are affected think again this was a social rider – not riding a Harley and wearing his vest with a few patches that were not club patches – EVERYONE is being targeted and we hope that this account reaches the people who are reviewing the VLAD laws as this is another account of the unacceptable nature of the laws and legislations which need to be abolished.
PLEASE SHARE and especially to the wider public who do not ride and need to understand why we are so passionate about the removal of the laws and we ask this question – how many car drivers were stopped at that same RBT last night and how many of them were subjected to further searches and asked to strip off at the side of the road?
DISCRIMINATION at its worst!
Now What is happening in Australia ought to be of concern to Every Liberty and Justice loving Human being, esp to us who ride to live… just across the ditch.
I read recently that ” The Hells Angels in Nelson” and that “the Police say they ‘wont tolerate’ them”.
I ask “Should New Zealand Bikers be worried about Auzzy Style Nazi Laws getting passed here ?”
Read on…
“Gang expansion in Nelson ‘won’t be tolerated'” – police….
The expansion of organised criminal gangs in Nelson will be not be tolerated, police say.
The comments follow reports that the Hells Angels has overthrown the longstanding Lost Breed motorcycle gang in Nelson.
Sources said the Lost Breed disbanded in late December after at least one senior member defected to the Hells Angels.
Tasman police district commander Karyn Malthus: “I think it’s intolerable to have gangs in our society full stop.”
Martin de Ruyter
Tasman police district commander Karyn Malthus: “I think it’s intolerable to have gangs in our society full stop.”
It is understood the Hells Angels has also taken over the Lost Breed gang pad in Fuji Court, Stoke.
Tasman police district commander Superintendent Karyn Malthus said police were working to “confirm and understand” what has happened.
However, she said the expansion of any gang in Nelson Bays “won’t be tolerated” by police.
“I think it’s intolerable to have gangs in our society full stop. We have a concerted focus against it. Whether it is the Lost Breed or the Hells Angels, they will get the same focus from police,” Malthus said.
“It is something that we will focus our energies on in combating organised crime – absolutely.”
Malthus declined to comment on what she described as “gossip and innuendo” around the Hells Angels’ expansion in Nelson.
She said gangs generally “only exist for criminal activity and we have to accept that, yes, methamphetamine plays a major part in their day-to-day business”.
The Hells Angels has been linked to the methamphetamine trade in New Zealand.
Detective Sergeant Chris Roberts, officer in charge of the Tasman Organised Crime Unit, said police will act on any information and intelligence they get regarding gang criminal offending in the region.
“It’s business as usual for us. If there’s any offending we can look at, we will. Certainly we don’t want criminal gangs expanding in the district. If they’re there to commit offences, they’ll be policed accordingly.”
He said there had been no suggestion of “inter-gang friction” in the region.
“If that came to the fore we’d be out there looking to deal to it,” Roberts said. “That’s what we’re here for – to protect the public and to continue preventing crime.”
Read more >here<
***************************
Now as a Libertarian and a NZ biker I ask What the flock are the Nelson police going to do about all this?
They will probably use their old tactics, which include undercover operations... and salivate about *Big Raids and Mass Busts*.... you know.... the Drug war Bullshit ... same shit that made Al Capone Filthy Rich and super dangerous...
Yet I am concerned that they may also Lobby parliament* or council to pass Auzzy style Nazi laws against Biker Clubs.
Now I have nothing against the Police arresting violent dangerous criminals…. nothing against the Police breaking up organised crime syndicates… yet the way parliaments like Australia function is that they use shitty excuses like Gang violence to pass Evil laws which end up violating the rights and liberties of Everyone… and give the Police evil powers to Fuck over peaceful people who are not guilty of any wrong doing…. Like most bikers…. and that is what is happening in Australia. *Right now*… and what most of the arsehole sheeple of New Zealand (who dont ride) would love to see happen here.
And on this subject of ‘organised crime’…. instead of passing such nasty anti-freedom laws… which actually make more people hate the Police, parliament should end the war on drugs… That would put an end to a massive proportion of the violence that is associated with organised crime and bikers.
A reform like that would actually *improve* relations between the people and the police.
And Biker clubs that don’t get involved in serious organized crime could be left in peace… as they should be.
There are also principles of justice which ought to protect the freedom of association of everyone… just because a some gang members may commit certain crimes, this is not justification for holding *other members* of that gang responsible for the crimes of their associates.
*Yet many in the police… the courts… politicians… and most of the sheeple despise such principles and safeguards for individual liberty and justice because it makes their job harder to do…. they prefer the easy way… the un-principled bigoted way… that panders to their hatred… and dont give a shit about principles of justice…. they simply want the power to fuck over people and groups they hate or fear.
And in the process Liberty and thousands of innocent people get stomped on by the system… but hey that’s just business as usual in shitty Socialist democracies that fill their jails with peaceful people.
Tim Wikiriwhi
Christian Libertarian.
New Zealand Biker.
New Zealanders Providing shelter from the Storm.
This is Essential to the the very *Soul* of our nation.
Let us never be governed by Fear… or Selfish indifference.
Let Bravery and Humanity prevail.
Only this way can we truly hold our heads up.
Any ‘Issues’ that arise from our Goodness… those we must also rise above.
Among other things We must expect some of these people to suffer PTSD because of the horrors they have faced.
Five years of grief, and continues to expand the woundFive years of sorrow and the wound was still bleeding#save #humanity
Posted by Save Humanity on Saturday, November 21, 2015
Providing these families safe haven is undoubtedly the right thing to do.
I personally am willing to put finances and assistance to this cause, and I hope My friends that you are willing too.
I will make investigations as to how we as individuals can make voluntary contributions, and help our new Countrymen and their families.
Let us rally and work to make this a success for us all.
Tim Wikiriwhi
Christian Libertarian.
New Zealand.
Gavin Seim for Liberty
” Mainstream Media is lying like crazy. But the facts show clearly LaVoy was murdered. He was shot while his hands were still in the air.
Let’s make sure the world knows it. — Gav ”
Published on 28 Jan 2016
This is the complete video footage of a joint FBI and Oregon State Police traffic stop and OSP officer-involved shooting of Robert “LaVoy” Finicum on the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. This footage, which has only been edited to blur out aircraft information, was taken by the FBI on 01/26/2016 and released by the FBI on 01/28/2016. Note regarding date/time stamp in the left corner of video: Pilots use Zulu
“Friends, don’t take the bait. The bait is this video with no sound. Closer video and/or sound would reveal he was hit with their bullets several times before he dropped his hands.
Also, observation from Jeremiah Dearinger:
Also, I found the spot in the video where they shot at them and caused them to speed away. It’s at 8:11. You will see the drone footage brighten momentarily (split second) and you see smoke. It’s a gun shot. And you immediately see the brake light on the truck go off and they start driving.”
My thoughts….Obviously after complying to the flashing lights on the police vehicals, and pulling over… Lavoy hits the gas pedal *when the Police open fire on them! … that is the best explanation.
I think this was all planned… and filmed to make it look like they were resisting arrest.
Then Driving in fear for their lives they met the second road block… which was set up expressly for the purpose of an execution…. they already had gunmen in the trees.
Having stopped the vehicle Lavoy jumped out of the truck with raised hands attempting to surrender.
It is ridiculous to think he was foolish enough to try and shoot his way out of that situation!
This is clear from the video.
He only drops his hands and goes for his gun *after* they have opened fire on him… murdering him in cold blood.
No doubt the Police and FBI had been pep talked into thinking and treating these guys as ‘Terrorists’.
And now they have murdered a Righteous defender of the constitution… and are waiting to see if they have gotten away with it.
Only the American people themselves can rise up at this outrage and show the evil government the consequences of their tyranny.
This is what the second amendment is all about.
Tim Wikiriwhi
Libertarian Christian Independent.
New Zealand.
Citizens for Constitutional Freedom Support Group
Like This Page · 10 hrs · Edited ·
The FBI says that LaVoy reached twice for a 9mm gun inside his jacket on the left hip area. However, LaVoy carried a revolver on his right hip in a holster. The video shows that LaVoy’s jacket was closed at the time he was shot. Why would a right-handed man who carries a revolver openly on his right hip choose to leave his holster behind and instead hide another man’s 9mm gun on the inside of a jacket around his left hip? It’s as preposterous as the FBI’s thoroughly debunked claim that federal agents did not start the fires that burned 80+ men, women and children alive at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.
The FBI is lying. LaVoy’s vehicle was shot at one time at the first stop when Ryan put his hands and head out the window to speak to the feds. LaVoy’s vehicle was shot at several times as he drove away to seek the help and protection from the Grant County Sheriff. LaVoy’s windshield was shot from the front by an agent who jumped out in front of the vehicle at the second stop.
LaVoy was transporting an 18 year old girl with him who was visiting with her family to sing gospel music at the town hall they were traveling to. To save her, Shawna and Ryan Bundy, LaVoy jumped out of the vehicle with his hands in the air. He yelled out that if they were going to shoot someone, to shoot him. With his hands in the air, that is exactly what they did.
The first shot struck him on the left side of his body. His body began to buckle and his hands went down to the wound but he was ordered to put his hands back in the air. He tried to do so, but naturally returned his hands back to the wound. He turned and pointed at the vehicle, yelling out that there were women in it. Rushing up behind him, another agent put a laser pointer on LaVoy and shot him in the face. He was still moving on the ground when they shot him three more times.
It was cold-blooded murder. And the American people will not forget it. LaVoy is a martyr for the cause of justice and liberty. We will not stop fighting for our freedom. Harney County Oregon is our Bunker Hill. This is only the beginning.
Update 2:
Victoria Sharp Witnesses Lavoy Finicum Being Shot To Death
The US Government has murdered a peaceful yet resolute Patriot and defender of the American Constitution, and arrested 7 others… all of whom were forthright dissenters against the governments ongoing violations of constitutional Law and the rights of Individuals.
They chose to commit this crime in a place where there would be the least amount of witnesses and in such a way that would allow them to control the media dialogue about what transpired.
They now await to see what reaction… if any… how the American people will respond.
This is a precursor for Martial Law and the crushing of the approaching Revolution which will occur when the America plunges off the Fiscal cliff.
Should there be no mass rallies about the country in outrage of this monumental crime, such apathy will no doubt signal to these Malevolent Powers that Americans dont give a shit about a few Bible believing 2nd amendment loving Honkeys and so they will be able to escalate their systematic implementation of measures designed to protect the Corrupt Status Quo from an uprising of the people … whom the founding documents of their nation… the American declaration of Independence and the constitution say Citizens have both the right and the moral duty to *Abolish the government* … by armed revolution if necessary…. when it becomes tyrannical and corrupt.
We all know the American government/police/etc murders people all the time… and that the ranks of the American Law enforcement are filled with Evil thugs that think little of Beating and shooting Americans to death… Men, women, and children.
The activities of Lavoy, nor his murder had anything to do with his Colour, yet we…. at the very ends of the Earth have witnessed the outrage of Black communities when *Innocent Black Americans* get slaughtered… yet who will protest when the victims of State violence are white?
You see what makes *this murder* particularly dire is that while it is very Politically correct to be outraged when a Black person gets killed by trigger happy Cops…. because ‘Black lives matter’…. yet when you are a seen as a Bible believing hick who refuses to surrender their right to bear arms…. then *It’s not PC* to give a shit about them!
The Media, and The Democrats under Obama has successfully labeled these defenders of Liberty and the second amendment… not as True American patriots… but as heartless and crazy scum who are responsible for all the Gun deaths in America.
Domestic Terrorists.
Many of the Police want to completely disarm the American people so that they can Beat, Kill, and arrest anyone they desire without facing resistance to their jackbooted tyranny.
Many are Brick Stupid and will obey any order.
Others… more righteous Police… understand why they were employed…. what the Constitution expects of them… and that Guns save the lives of Citizens by giving them the means of protecting themselves from violent offenders… and rouge police.
Many have already declared they will disobey any ‘executive orders’ or ‘Legal fabrications’ that attempt to justify the confiscation of Arms from the American citizenry .
Yet we can be sure that in the short time that remains before the whole bankrupt house of cards collapses… that the powers that be will busy themselves ‘weeding out’ these Good, and righteous Police and Military personnel whom would ‘Refuse to follow orders’… just as they will be systematically removing Judges whom respect the constitution… the longer they can prolong the collapse… the more of their ambitions for consolidating their stranglehold over the American people will be implemented.
Satan Laughing spreads his wings.
‘Evil prevails when Good men do nothing’.
Unless the American people Rally in outrage… these things are inevitable… This much is clear to anyone who understands the modus opperandi of tyranny.
*Dont for one minute accept the sycophantic Idea that these patriots who the government has moved against are the dangerous criminals!*
The Greatest, Highest Law of the land is on their side!
The Criminals are the ones wearing the Badges, and giving the orders to Kill and arrest.
Lavoy Finnicum understood all of this.
To him the principles upon which America was built were sacred, and essential for the Life and liberty of himself, his family, friends and countrymen…of all races and creeds, and he has now sealed his commitment to the cause with his Life!
His God-Given Life was Stolen from him by the Powers of Mammon.
He is now an American Hero of the most important species.
I watch these events with sorrow and alarm.
It is far from over!
Please watch Gavin Seim explain what has happened… observe the righteousness of the cause… the nobleness of the manor of these Patriots whom are now labeled as ‘Enemies of the State’.
What has America become?
These are the sorts of Evils committed in Stalin’s USSR!
Watch this good mans vocal warning to America and understand why Governments around the world want to have the power to censor the internet… and silence the voices of principled dissent.
Take care all you peoples of the world to protect those voices among you whom boldly expose the evils of Officialdom… for they are the targets of the powers that be.
They desire nothing better than to Jail, torture, and science forever the voices of those who would rally the people to overthrow their Corrupt operations.
I shudder at the thought of just how apathetic… just how subservient and sheepish the average westerner is.
And it is this apathy and ignorance that allows the tyrants to Bankrupt, imprison, and destroy so many lives.
I implore you all *to get interested in politics* and not just the fashionable nutbar politics of Socialism, but learn about the inalienable rights of Individuals!
Learn what *Libertarianism* is all about and how it is the only true resistance to Tyranny and oppression in all it’s political forms.
Ignore my words at your peril.
Tim Wikiriwhi.
Christian Libertarian.
New Zealand.
Lavoy Finicum’s stand for Freedom facebook page >Here<
His family Responds to his murder..."
****Finicum Family Response to LaVoy’s Murder****
***1/27/2016***
We thank all those reaching out to us in love during this difficult time. Your faithful prayers are felt. Please keep praying and keep using your voice to get the truth out. This fight against tyranny is not over. Press forward.
Forgiveness is what we can extend and understanding is what we want.
Christ was and is LaVoy’s exemplar. Though there are evil and conspiring men at work, Christ still forgave the executioners for they knew not what they did.
We give permission to all media to use this statement in their reports."
Watch Gavin!!! (Below)
Update: The FBI have released Drone/ chopper footage of their operation that resulted in them gunning down Lavoy.
See what transpired and commentary Here>>> The Murder of Lavoy Finicum. (2).
^ The stoning of Stephen… Ironically Saul would become St Paul the Greatest Apostle and chosen vessel of God to preach Grace unto humanity… ending Moral legalism. After meeting Christ and receiving his commission he never again picked up the stones. He said “If it be possible… as much as lieth in you live peaceably with all men”.
Among other principles … including the love of God towards all men *as individuals*, and their equality he laid down the principles that would one day give birth to Libertarianism and the concepts of God given inalienable rights of individuals…. yet my post is only indirectly about this.
Todays blog post is on a subject that has been fermenting in my mind for many years, and it is written just as much to myself as to others.
It has to do with my personal development as a human being… a growth in personal wisdom and character., and most importantly it is aimed at making me a more effective soldier in the battle of Ideas.
My life over the last 20 years has been in Flux…. High Highs and low lows… and via the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune I have battled forth …. Flailing my sword about driven by emotion as much as reason…. And emulating others as much as blazing my own trail… and this has had as many disadvantages as advantages.
Not only have I learned Good habits, but also very bad ones, and todays post is about understanding all this better, and attempting to up my game… and become a better person in the process.
It wont be easy… as not only does it involve breaking entrenched habits that have become natural to me but also provide me with a certain amount of pleasure… and on top of that it involves reinventing my own Self-image of who I am… loosing some vices that I have mistaken as virtues and as such given me self esteem when I should have felt shame… and yet if I succeed in this I will start to see the virtues of character traits I have held to be vices… and I expect to generate a new basis for self esteem… via improved character and more effectiveness as a crusader for Truth, justice, and the salvation of individuals.
Big claims huh! :-)… yet definitely worthy of contemplation.
Lets get into it …
In these times of Terror and barbarity, it is commonplace to find the so-called lovers of Liberty to be openly pouring out hatred upon Muslims because of their concepts of Sharia Law, Jihad, intolerance, and brutality and so that even their most benign activities receive the most vehement responses.
You can be sure that at any mention of Islam that within minutes Self Righteous people seeking to promote terror and hate will post un-moderated pictures and accounts of atrocities that are supposed to foster and vindicate their outrage and hatred towards Muslims.
This is particularly noticeable in the attitudes of the disciples of that most militant of atheists… Ayn Rand… who collectively go by the name of ‘Objectivists’… yet also is common place rationale among other Non-Muslims… Jews, Hindus… and tragically… among the majority of those who go by the name of Christian.
What bothers me is that this negativity and outrage…. While at face value appears both Natural and justified… it does little towards actually saving the world, but plays into the hands of the terrorists and haters.
It is great at stirring up support for closing boarders to the Displaced, and Sending in the stealth Bombers…. Yet we have all herd the motto that while military action can be essential and justified… that wars are ultimately won in *battlefield of the minds of humanity.*
That forced peace due to military might is always short lived… with the evil still fermenting *as hatred*… just under the surface… just waiting for fresh opportunity to boil over again.
What I am about to say is not only worth contemplating in regards to ultimately winning the ideological war against Islamic extremism, but I believe is valuable in all aspects of the winning support for truth and enlightenment.
Here is an example of the problem as I see it…
Recently I came across some Objectivist Atheists engaged in their favorite past time of slinging shit at Islam… under the pretense that this was Righteous Indignation against an insidious Evil… yet for the record this conversation could just as well have been found coming from Christian supporters of Donald Trump.
A school was having a “Try the Hijab Day”…. followed by the comment ‘Why not have a “Try a Nazi Uniform day” also?’.
Sure enough the following comment and picture was solicited…
.
“Well done XXXX XXXXXX. What a great man you are. Islamic sadism is a terrible thing. Murderous attacks on innocent female victims including even infants are not just the action of a lone wolf or even of the multiple “lone wolves” involved. .There is an appalling mindset inculcated and encouraged from birth, so embedded and reinforced that not even one individual does anything to deter the horrific violence against the powerless. In civilised communities public entertainment comes in the form of sporting contests, musical entertainment and events uplifting for families. In savage anti-humanity societies public entertainment is a large hate-filled crowd of males exulting in the worst imaginable brutality.”
^^^That escalated quickly! … yet is typical.
The post went from an inter-cultural school lesson designed to ‘de-alienate children into an attempt to subvert them into accepting… maybe even committing atrocities!
Of course the terrible deeds committed in the name of Islam should generate indignation and elicit vocal responses, yet identifying problems and evils is at best only the beginning of the solution… and I believe that too many people allow *the problem* to cloud their better judgment and actually turn them into just another part of the problem rather than taking the higher road that leads the world out of darkness.
Terrorism and brutality ferment reciprocal hatred…. an unqualified blind type of hatred that is quick to pass a sentence of collective guilt upon an entire demographic because of the activities of a few.
Those drawn into this mindset mistake bigotry for righteous outrage and this is exactly what the terrorists, and hate groups feed upon.
This sort of reciprocity highlights the dilemma of being a Libertarian who hopes to create a better world.
As a Christian Libertarian I myself believe Islam to be a dangerous false religion,and am not at all surprised by the horrors that are being committed in it’s name, yet in the same token I also know that Atheism is also a dangerous false religion and that it too is responsible for infinite evils.
I also know that many so-called Christians are vile Statists… that they too support political oppression, and I respect the right of people to express their views, and criticize others.
Yet as a Libertarian I know not to be suckered into bogus collectivist mentality that underpins Bigotry.
While exercising my right to express my views, and fulfilling my duty to God to defend the faith,
I dont say *All Muslims* *All Atheists* are ‘Blar’ ‘Blar’… I try to avoid promoting bigotry.
With regards to Islamiphobia, it is sometimes too easy to post horrible pictures of victims of various hate groups… without clarifications… this is usually done *to promote bigotry… to illicit support for nasty prejudices*… and that is why It is very hard to be a Good Libertarian…. Speaking out against bigotry ,yet without underplaying the veracity of legitimate concerns .
And here I get to the crux of my argument for this post… the point in which I seek to improve my own game…
I believe this ‘essential balance’ between boldly facing heinous truths, yet not falling into bigotry can only be done by the sincere of heart who are prepared to look at both sides of any contentions… and to be found to be discussing things as objectively as possible… and that is never achieved by over-generalizations… and furthermore by looking not only at the truthfulness of contentious issues, but just as essentially *at the heart motive* of both ourselves… and of the Diatribes we encounter.
It is only if we maintain a clean heart… free of Rancor… motivated by Love…with our eyes on the prize … that we can be effective evangelists of enlightenment.
I am not saying I have mastered these arts.
In fact I am sure I haven’t… yet I am aware of the ‘Bad habit’ and base ‘pleasure’ that comes from opening up cans of malice upon the objects of our scorn.
I try to reserve that sort of ‘disregard’ for those whom I believe truly embody willful Evil… those whom have no desire to see their own wickedness… but revel in it… yet still you cant expect pouring out indignation to win anyone for truth!
It is in this sense an admission of frustration and defeat.
It is a sad truth that *some people*… many people are beyond reason… even those who claim to be champions of it!
The human factor is always at work… the bible says “the heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.”, and again “That this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world but that men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.”
The problem with dishing out Evil for evil is that while it is relatively easy to identify evil values and beliefs, and to take some sort of pleasure from the idea that we are morally superior, yet after this what do we do with our knowledge?
Do we allow it to ferment hatred and justify aggression, justify building walls from which we throw righteous stones? (its amazing who condemns the stoning of sinners in the old testament yet who support their governments doing the same thing and worse… to foreigners with foreign beliefs)
Or do we try and overcome ideological evils via the higher path… via enlightened values… reason and example?
Do we even care about those people lost in darkness enough to open up and maintain dialogues, or do we write them off as wicked reprobates and stamp their foreheads with ‘Child of Satan’?
I believe that if the world is going to become more free and civil requires not just military supremacy, but Victories of enlightenment and good will to triumph over Darkness and reciprocal malevolence… and this can only be done by ‘Lovers’ not ‘haters’.
Our societies must not only truly embody Libertarian justice and equality, but also the spirit of benevolence towards ‘the lost’, and a desire to ‘win’ them over in their hearts and minds…. And these are ‘Christian humanitarian values towards the lost’ and why Christianity is one of the few ideologies with the power to overcome savagery, Crime, evil superstitions, and bigotry.
I am not simply saying that Christianity practiced well is both truthful and righteous… which it is… but that everybody… non-Christians as well can learn valuable insights into how to stimulate the growth of civilization… how to bring light and peace into areas of Darkness and Barbarism.
I also say that these truths expose Rancid ideologies that pose as Reason and enlightenment yet are in fact hotbeds of bigotry and hate… and that despite their self-acclamation as being the champions of humanity and social progress… are actually a big part of the problem!
They are almost as backward and deranged as the evils they profess to be the vanguard against.
Thus we must take care how we wield our Ideological swords.
Too often the ‘Superiority complex’ is used as justification for Hatred, bigotry, and pouring out Guile…. which only exacerbates the troubles and further alienates those who we should be trying to lead up the higher path.
And This is why the *heart motive* behind what we write and say determines the ‘Spirit’ of actions and the success or failure in respect to the war of ideas.
For sure Tirades that spew forth hot coals upon their chosen targets are ‘successful’ for attracting the applause and fame within other haters yet absolutely fail at bringing more enlightenment into the world.
I think there are times and places to have ‘in house’ pep talks to the troops that may be spoken in strong terms to emphasize the gravity of what is at stake… and the urgency with which they must rally, yet that cant be a summary of your entire modus opperandi!
You need to make it clear the while the evils are vile, and that arms may be needed, not to mistake this as an excuse to become a hater… and that Goodwill towards humanity must always be at the forefront.
If we realize that most people in dark lands believe backward things only do so because they have not been exposed to the truth in a way that they can see as being not only true… but delivered by souls of good will who *want their betterment*… this is far more likely to increase the sum in favour of enlightenment and lead to real victories in the battle of Ideas.
Missionaries are just as essential as Arms in the struggle as ultimately it is only an enlightenment that can overcome Evil ideologies.
And this is basic stuff… because we know that we ourselves are far more likely to respond positively to truths that are presented out of care than out of hate.
I found this…From someone who actually won over hearts and minds rather than just pouring out scorn… upon those who deserved it.
Actions speak louder than words
Now look at this pic below posted to an Objectivist FB page, and think about what such cartoons hope to achieve.
Read the comments
Like • Reply •
B R
Bf That kind of shit will plug up your pipes in the worst way.
Like • Reply •
J M
J M Throw the Bible in there as well to make it even better.
Like • Reply •
Now read my comment…
Tim Wikiriwhi
Tim Wikiriwhi You know XXXXX that I can see the amusement factor in this picture… *yet contemplate this for a moment*… do you think it actually serves to further the cause of Freedom?
Do you think that it will be propitious in convincing Muslims to listen to you… to forsake Islam and embrace your values and ideals?
Dont you understand that this is actually childish and counter productive to your professed desire to enlighten the world?
Dont you see that this merely panders to the Haters… the bigots, those people who dont give a shit about *Saving the muslims*… but seek to insult them and vent hatred upon them?
Like • Reply •
I receive a typical response …. And my answer follows
B R said…. “ They will never forsake their values or their ideals. That is not islam. Islam is above any other ideals. To them anyone other than islam is beneath them. You can’t reason with someone who always thinks he is above you. You can bow to their needs. They will never bow to yours. How many women and children have to be raped and murdered for you to see this.”
Like • Reply • 2 hrs
My Reply…. “B R.. You have defeated yourself… maybe willfully so…. what you have said is something *You want to believe* rather than something that is empirically true, and you do it to excuse your own lack of reason when dealing with this problem.
You say they are beyond reason when the truth is ‘You cant be bothered trying… and you actually *hate* them… ie you dont have any compassion…. yet you have plenty of spleen that you want to vent.
Your character is such that you cant even be polite to them.
You look down your nose at them.
And you are cowardly.
The idea of befriending a Muslim terrifies you.
Let me tell you that Plenty of Muslims have been converted to Christianity by Christians who *Care enough* to take the trouble, and run the risks.
Christians *see the prize* and believe it’s worth every effort.
Wining lost souls to the truth… to truth that raises savages out of Dark superstitions and brings civilization… and ends Barbarisms…. fosters good will and peaceful co-existence.
Christianity sees Muslims and atheists *as valuable … precious individuals*… not as hopelessly Damned sub-humans.
Now if Objectivism really did value the human individual… really was ‘a movement for civilization’ it would not generate such defeatism , indifference…. Worse absolute hatred towards billions of human beings.
Like • Reply • Just now
^^^ So my post looks to be finishing on a condemnation of the philosophy of Objectivism as *Anti-Individualism*
*Anti-Humanity* …. A Wolf in sheeps clothing.
Every virtue it pretends to extol are found to be Hot air…. mere platitudes.
It does not tend towards enlightenment and the value of human individuals and that is why it’s ranks are peopled with egotistical narcissists of malicious minds… and this leads them to promoting very *inhuman solutions* in dealing with the likes of the Victims of Islamic extremism and western foreign policy… solutions completely at variance with the founding principles of Libertarianism… esp with regards to the current Refugee crisis.
No doubt my comments here will not find many Objectivists open enough to see that I am right.
They might even say that I’m practicing ‘hate speech’ against them… that I’m not being PC enough towards them … that by my hardness I am not demonstrating ‘love’ towards them, and so failing on every level to reach *Their hearts and minds*…. Yet even if this were true… would not such an accusation actually vindicate my whole post?
You see that even if I fail to live up to this post myself, it does not diminish its validity… it just exposes my own hypocrisy, and poor character.
Ironically I learned this polemic ‘Militancy’ from my Objectivist mentors!
This is a fact that i now seek to remedy.
It is more characteristic of the Pharisee Saul *Before* he met the risen Christ.
St Paul typifies conversion from the spirit of Moralistic persecution.
His zeal for the truth, is tempered by compassion and humanity,… the true spirit of Evangelism… and he was willing to lay his life down for it.
Nobody has been a more ardent defender of truth against superstition, yet still he used the power of persuasion to win converts… from a loving heart not self righteous malice.
He said “… yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.”
Maybe Paul appreciated the grace God had shown him when he was in the throws of self righteous persecution.
Maybe his compassion comes from being once blind… yet by God’s grace… now he sees… and he knows that without brave preachers of grace and Good will… large swaths of humanity will remain under Satan’s Demonic sway… and be damned.
Realising my own problem… I am hereby seeking to learn better skills of communication… and this is what I meant in my introduction about this post being aimed as much at myself as at others.
Let me again talk about balance. I am not an apologist for ‘Politically Correctness’.
I believe The truth should be ruggedly defended and that content is far more important than grammar and worrying 24/7 about offending petty sensitivities… in fact as a Westy Bogan I simply cant function at that ‘Ivory tower level’… nor do I seek to be a part of that ‘elevated’ world.
I speak as a common man hoping to reach common people using common folk lingo and rationale.
And when talking to the likes of Objectivists you would hope that for all their claims of Rugged rationality that they of all people ought to be able to handle the truth hard spoken… yet again we find their claims to be hot air…. They love to dish it out but cant handle the slightest amount in return… so precious are their sensitivities… so vain are their egos …. They are not just beyond reproach… they are beyond reason.
I await *just one objectivist* to admit that I my post has validity, and that they will try and modify their behavior… to better embody the values their philosophy claims to precipitate.
I wrote a speech 10 years ago for the NZ Libz party, In it I talk about why I believe Objectivism fails to win over hearts and minds… and why Christianity on the other hand changed world history… and it has a lot to do with what I have been trying to talk to you about in this thread.
It is below.
I would like to point out that while I am no fan of PC rubbish, I think it is too easy… too convenient to pull out the ‘PC is evil’ card to justify rancid and obnoxious, and bigoted Tirades that are then expected to be vindicated as ‘Righteous indignation’… and ‘Rugged defense of liberty’ … etc when it is just Guile…
So To all you out there involved in the Battle of Ideas… no matter what color of faith or values you seek to propagate in this world, I hope my post helps you to appreciate that for victory in this ideological Battlefield, that *Heart motive* is just as important as being right.
It is sad to apprehend that sometimes the advocates of Evil understand this truth better than anyone, and that is why many of them *pretend* to care about those people in distress… only to lead them to destruction.
Tim Wikiriwhi
Christian Libertarian.
As is his wont, my King James Bible believing Dispensationalist libertarian Christian co-blogger Tim tagged me in his post (of the above image) on Facebook. 🙂
Be sure to get your doctrine from the Bible, not the traditions of man! (Colossians 2:8)
I really do appreciate the pro-tip. It’s just that there’s a whole lotta problems with this instruction. At least one of which renders Tim’s advice utterly useless!
One problem is that the cited verse, Colossians 2:8, does not even mention the Bible.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (KJV)
See! What this verse is really saying is be sure to get your doctrine from Christ, not the traditions of man! I agree! But let’s be clear. There’s no mention at all of the Bible in this verse. And I’ve made it quite clear in previous blog posts what my view is. It is that Jesus is inerrant, but the Bible isn’t. The Word of God is inerrant. His scribes, not so much. Yes, that’s right. I basically equate the Bible with “the traditions of man”. I don’t equate the Bible with Christ. The Bible as we know it hasn’t even been around a couple of thousand years yet. Whereas
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (DARBY)
Believe it or not, another problem is that the KJV mistranslates this particular verse. And don’t believe it or do, so does the NIV. But of course! 😉
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces[a] of this world rather than on Christ. (NIV)
Which is why I always have recourse to Young’s Literal Translation for times like this when it matters exactly what the Bible says.
See that no one shall be carrying you away as spoil through the philosophy and vain deceit, according to the deliverance of men, according to the rudiments of the world, and not according to Christ (YLT)
It’s clear that “spoiled” is a KJV mistranslation of “spoil”. Yet at least the NIV has the good grace to provide a footnote (see above) to the effect that it has construed “the basic principles” (rudiments) as “the elemental spiritual forces” of this world.
But here’s the fatal flaw with Tim’s advice—be sure to get your doctrine from the Bible, not the traditions of man!—which renders it useless. Which Bible?
Tim’s telling me to be sure to get my doctrine from the Bible, but which one? As we all know, Christians (e.g., Protestants vs. Catholics and Orthodox Christians) can’t even agree on which books belong in the Bible, let alone which translations of the canonical books are themselves canonical.
Which Bible? Tim will, of course, answer the Authorized King James Version of 1611. Which is a fair answer to a fair question. But if I accept this answer, one thing’s for sure. I’m now getting my doctrine from the traditions of man, and from the traditions of one man in particular, viz., my co-blogger Tim Wikiriwhi! And not necessarily from either the true Bible (if, indeed, there even is such a thing) or Christ.
It comes down to this. When all is said and done, we must decide—each of us individually must decide—in what and/or in whom to trust.
I trust in Jesus, the Son of God, whom I know from the first-hand accounts of his ministry by the original gospel authors, from his work in the lives of my brothers and sisters in Christ, from his work in my own life, and from personal encounter.
I trust in the deliverances of my own God-given moral compass when (not often, just occasionally) they conflict with what’s in the Bible.
So the Bible. What’s it good for?
Why, it’s profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works, of course! 🙂
Princeton, OR — On Saturday, multiple armed ‘militiamen’ took over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge HQ to protest the sentence handed down to two Oregon ranchers accused of arson.
The ranchers accused of arson are Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon. They were each sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for alleged arsons they committed on federal lands.
According to the Washington Standard, the problem is multifaceted.
First, both men were sentenced in 2012 by now-retired U.S. District Judge Michael Hogan, following the trial. Steven received one year and a day in prison for setting fires in 2001 and 2006. Dwight got 3 months for his 2001 involvement. Hogan did not believe the men had malicious intent to be labeled as terrorists under theAntiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, even though he sentenced them to jail for the time he did.
The men agreed to a plea deal that they would not appeal the 2012 sentence in order to bring the case to a close.
Both men served their sentences and were released. Now, the feds have appealed those sentences and want the mandatory minimum five-year sentence imposed on the men, and so they appealed to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, who agreed with the feds that the judge ruled illegally. However, now they are wanting to label the Hammonds as terrorists under the 1996 law in order to put them back in jail.
Aside from being thrown in jail for a second time, the Hammonds are upset because they allege no crime was ever committed.
“They called and got permission to light the fire… We usually called the interagency fire outfit – a main dispatch – to be sure someone wasn’t in the way or that weather wouldn’t be a problem,” said Dwight’s wife Susan.
In a post to their blog, the Bundy family explained that the Hammonds were merely engaging in prescribed burns to keep the land healthy and productive. And, they assert that the Bureau of Land Management also conducts these burns.
The Hammonds lit a fire on their own property that spread to public land. No one was injured, no property was destroyed and the Hammond extinguished the fire themselves, according to the Bundys. The court even ruled that the fires actually had a positive impact on the land.
“With no authority or justification to prosecute, eleven years after the fire, federal attorneys have obtained judgment that the Hammonds are terrorists and must be punished severely for their actions,” explains the Bundy Family.
On November 3rd, the Bundys issued a warning, which stated,
Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/mow-down-americans-critical-police-killings-beg-feds-slaughter-citizens/#fxfk3eEGCDzEGMX0.99
I am watching these events with interest.
The only comment I have to add now is with regards to the very Subtil way the powers of darkness work to destroy those brave souls who would dare to resist their diabolical plans… a perfect example being Obama’s recent attempt to get the Senate to remove the second amendment rights of Americans on ‘the terrorist watch list/ no fly list’…. saying such a move was simple ‘common sense’.
Watch his speech >here<
Now on face value this may seem like a prudent measure to keep the population safe from domestic terrorism... you get the idea.... take the guns off 'Radical Islamics who vocalise support for Isis', etc before they start shooting.... who would deny the sagacity... the humanity of such 'forward thinking' in light of all the terrorism of our day?
well Amazingly enough... Congress was not fooled this time... in fact it is *not common sense at all* but a sneaky ruse to remove 2nd amendment rights from anyone *the government* deems to be a threat *to the government*... which goes to show that this ruse was nothing short of a Constitutional removal of the second amendment itself!
A Machiavellian power grab!
You see *anyone* can be put on 'the terrorist watch list'.... esp if they are vocal about resisting government tyranny.
These are people who by and large have not been convicted of any crimes.
They may belong to groups or have associations with people the government dont like.... like the Bundy's.
They may simply be vocal bloggers against Police brutality, against the war on drugs,... like me.
The Darkest period in human history lies before us…. saith the scriptures.
It is going to be a period of Absolute Tyranny…. of absolute State worship.
The powers of darkness will surely strangulate all outspoken dissenters, and will crush all resistance.
The will dis-arm their captive populations, and label anyone who stands against their Leviathan system as ‘domestic terrorists’… and use any Nut bar crimes as excuses to push through their agenda…. all to the applause of the Billions of dumbfounded dipshits who themselves *hate* independent libertarian minded individuals who refuse to swim with the flow.
This is a powder keg waiting to blow…. yet the Powers of Evil are playing their game…
The Stakes are as high as they can get!
Obama would love these guys to kill a few cops so that he can paint this whole Libertarian movement as Domestic terrorists and Crush this Patriotic movement, and remove the 2nd amendment.
It is the only thing which prevents an absolute police State in America.
Tim Wikiriwhi
Christian, Libertarian Independent.
Update: 6/1/16…. Obama is now moving to impose his agenda against the 2nd amendment via ‘executive order’ bi-passing the safeguards of Congressional mandate while admitting the absolute impotence of these measures to achieve the supposed objectives he pretenses to underpin his actions!
“These are not only recommendations that are well within my legal authority and the executive branch, but they are also ones that the overwhelming majority of the American people – including gun owners – support and believe in.” Moments ago, President Barack Obama addressed his meeting with Attorney General Loretta Lynch regarding new executive actions aimed at tightening gun control.
